Popular Post dangerous doug Posted March 31, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2023 For a long while now I’ve had a set of mog 404 axles sitting in the corner of the workshop. Have never really been sure what to do with them as they have been destined to be under 3 project now and it’s never happened. It’s never been quite right. But I’ve been keeping up to date with others builds and impressed with the ammount of innovation going on (especially the @Stellaghost build) so now I have enough parts to toss my hat in the ring, I shall…. just want to say, I’m not the first to come up with this idea @Soren Frimodt was the first I’ve known to do it and we have briefly spoken about what’s involved. So I started playing about grafting mog axle flanges onto a trussed landrover axle case, flipped the diff and drilled the axle to accept. That’s where I stopped a few years ago. Then I came across some fabricated axle cases so cheap that I couldn’t say no, they were made by a reputable company who are no longer Pershing the project. The result is this Mog case, trussed landrover case and the new case(rear pictured) My main issues are the fancy new case differs in dimension massively to the others(duh) the original idea by soren is to cut the flange off of the landy case and mog case then slip the mog flange over the landy tube. Done. the new case uses a 3” tube, the ID of the mog flange is 81mm so that’s a no go. The other issue is the front axle tube is 62mm shorter than a mog case, i would like to keep them the same length but this created problems. It’s no big deal, the half shafts will have to be special ones anyway. the other solution is to weld the end flanges on to the axle tubes, this increases overall width by 30mm. Then have some adapter plates made up out of 15mm plate to not only give me my 60mm width I need but it also allows me to bolt on a standard Land Rover swivel if I ever wanted to! I’m not sure about this though as it’s 7 relatively small bolts taking all the torque generated by the portal boxes then Ofcourse how could one resist seeing what it looks like I forgot how heavy these thing are so I’m hurting today! the point of all this? Because I would like to have something a bit lighter than a 404 axle. I can easily lift a landrover diff one handed where the 404 diffs are a 2 handed hassle, the mog tube also weighs a lot. As you can see from the above photo I stripped the halfshafts, top gear, CVS, brake components and even the centre hub bolts just to strip a bit of weight for when I move it about. Game plan so far: flipped diffs, 2.88 R&P( hope you still have them @Hybrid_From_Hell), truetrac in the front, Detroit in the rear, standard concept Land Rover suspension. as for the vehicle they are going under…I would really like to put them under my lightweight….but I don’t think there’s room on this forum for 2 lightweights on 404s and I will forever live in stephens shadow😂 OR the 110 and as @landroversforever has pointed out, a bobbed 110 on portals would be a rare and capable thing. any thoughts, questions, encouragement or advice on machining would be appreciated special thanks to those who are tagged who have put up with my voicing ideas over the past few years only for me to go quiet when I’m distracted. You’re good patient people😂 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 46 minutes ago, dangerous doug said: For a long while now I’ve had a set of mog 404 axles sitting in the corner of the workshop. Have never really been sure what to do with them as they have been destined to be under 3 project now and it’s never happened. It’s never been quite right. But I’ve been keeping up to date with others builds and impressed with the ammount of innovation going on (especially the @Stellaghost build) so now I have enough parts to toss my hat in the ring, I shall…. just want to say, I’m not the first to come up with this idea @Soren Frimodt was the first I’ve known to do it and we have briefly spoken about what’s involved. So I started playing about grafting mog axle flanges onto a trussed landrover axle case, flipped the diff and drilled the axle to accept. That’s where I stopped a few years ago. Then I came across some fabricated axle cases so cheap that I couldn’t say no, they were made by a reputable company who are no longer Pershing the project. The result is this Mog case, trussed landrover case and the new case(rear pictured) My main issues are the fancy new case differs in dimension massively to the others(duh) the original idea by soren is to cut the flange off of the landy case and mog case then slip the mog flange over the landy tube. Done. the new case uses a 3” tube, the ID of the mog flange is 81mm so that’s a no go. The other issue is the front axle tube is 62mm shorter than a mog case, i would like to keep them the same length but this created problems. It’s no big deal, the half shafts will have to be special ones anyway. the other solution is to weld the end flanges on to the axle tubes, this increases overall width by 30mm. Then have some adapter plates made up out of 15mm plate to not only give me my 60mm width I need but it also allows me to bolt on a standard Land Rover swivel if I ever wanted to! I’m not sure about this though as it’s 7 relatively small bolts taking all the torque generated by the portal boxes then Ofcourse how could one resist seeing what it looks like I forgot how heavy these thing are so I’m hurting today! the point of all this? Because I would like to have something a bit lighter than a 404 axle. I can easily lift a landrover diff one handed where the 404 diffs are a 2 handed hassle, the mog tube also weighs a lot. As you can see from the above photo I stripped the halfshafts, top gear, CVS, brake components and even the centre hub bolts just to strip a bit of weight for when I move it about. Game plan so far: flipped diffs, 2.88 R&P( hope you still have them @Hybrid_From_Hell), truetrac in the front, Detroit in the rear, standard concept Land Rover suspension. as for the vehicle they are going under…I would really like to put them under my lightweight….but I don’t think there’s room on this forum for 2 lightweights on 404s and I will forever live in stephens shadow😂 OR the 110 and as @landroversforever has pointed out, a bobbed 110 on portals would be a rare and capable thing. any thoughts, questions, encouragement or advice on machining would be appreciated special thanks to those who are tagged who have put up with my voicing ideas over the past few years only for me to go quiet when I’m distracted. You’re good patient people😂 First off, plenty of room for another lightweight on 404 portals and I would be really interested on your approach and how you do it Secondly I've heard of some of the stuff you've built and seen some of your work on here, you are certainly not in my or anyone else's shadow Whichever way you decide to go I will be watching with a great deal of interest, really looking forward to it good luck regards Stephen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Interesting project, keep the updates coming. I'd say these would be a good fit under the 110, as the extended wheel base would make it more stable on hills. But either would work obviously. Are you fitting the Koenig PTO winch? Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Ooh. No shadows, plenty of room to do whatever you want (and entertain us with a cool build :D) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Stellaghost said: First off, plenty of room for another lightweight on 404 portals and I would be really interested on your approach and how you do it Secondly I've heard of some of the stuff you've built and seen some of your work on here, you are certainly not in my or anyone else's shadow Whichever way you decide to go I will be watching with a great deal of interest, really looking forward to it good luck regards Stephen Thank you for kind word Stephen, high praise indeed. We will see what happens, i bought a shell of a lightweight so I could build a “light weight lightweight” challenge truck but the appeal of having a tax and mot exempt classic landy is growing on me, especially as I already have a purpose built truck for abusing but we’ll see. I do quite like the idea of an 88” on leafs with portals and a “small” tyre 1 hour ago, Daan said: Interesting project, keep the updates coming. I'd say these would be a good fit under the 110, as the extended wheel base would make it more stable on hills. But either would work obviously. Are you fitting the Koenig PTO winch? Daan Hi daan, the Koenig will be fitted either way I go with the vehicle. I love your model of having everything mechanical hence the choice of diffs. I have 3 PTOs to choose from if I go down the 110 route (2 rear facing and 1 front) and I have a rear facing one for the series gearbox. It will defiantly be fitted but I have options. I also have a lump of scrap tacked together I call the proof of concept 1:1 winch but I think that will be too violent. And have also been looking into making the god winch out of an axle, don’t like that route as much as there isn’t a way to make it light enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 28 minutes ago, dangerous doug said: I also have a lump of scrap tacked together I call the proof of concept 1:1 winch but I think that will be too violent. And have also been looking into making the god winch out of an axle, don’t like that route as much as there isn’t a way to make it light enough Looking forward to this axle build Doug! It's a difficult choice to choose which vehicle for them to go under! For the god-winch idea.... what about using something like a Suzuki axle bits to make that side of it? Got to be a chunk lighter than a LR section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 5 hours ago, landroversforever said: Looking forward to this axle build Doug! It's a difficult choice to choose which vehicle for them to go under! For the god-winch idea.... what about using something like a Suzuki axle bits to make that side of it? Got to be a chunk lighter than a LR section. Move on from the solid axle idea ross. The freelander 1 rear diff weighs less than a landrover diff without the casing. There are also built in mounting points with it and has removable cover like the Salisburys. Easy to put a disk brake on one side and a shaft coming out the other with a bearing on the end to run the drum. that said, the Koenig is still lighter but that’s not important at the moment, I need to make a decision on how to attach the mog knuckles to the axle tube😂 I don’t really want to throw money at it and get a block of steel machined down to resemble something like this It’s for sure the neatest solution but I hate to think what it’ll cost to get that cut and spun….and 4 times! but then again this may be the best way. Like I said above, another option is having basically a 15mm thick mog flange made up with holes drilled in it to coincide with the Land Rover flange but I do have my doubts with the bolts holding it together….and it’s just another spot for it to leak😂 The quickest, easiest and cheapest way to do it is to just get a mog pattern flange cut and accept that the axle will be a bit narrower. This should be ok but I’m very aware of how much space the new pumpkin is taking up on the tube and am worried about room for things like radius arm mounts… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 What's the total thickness Agreed it would be very expensive and time consuming to machine a piece of 60mm ( I think ) plate down to a suitable weld on flange section Another option is to get the mog flange cut in the thickness plate needed for the flange and then attach it to a section of machined shaft drilled and tapped to accept it, flange can be fixed to shaft with countersunk allen bolts so the mating knuckle flange bolts onto a flat surface, alternatively, mog flange could be cut and then held in a 4 jaw chuck and bored out to be a press fit on a section of shaft and then welded into position, what time frame are you looking at ? regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 10 minutes ago, Stellaghost said: Another option is to get the mog flange cut in the thickness plate needed for the flange and then attach it to a section of machined shaft drilled and tapped to accept it, flange can be fixed to shaft with countersunk allen bolts so the mating knuckle flange bolts onto a flat surface, alternatively, what time frame are you looking at ? regards Stephen This is exactly what I was getting at but not sure I explained it well enough. I’m swaying towards just accepting it’ll be a bit narrower and getting a mog flange cut out of some thick plate as for time frame……I am in no rush, the axles have been sitting for 15years so no big deal. Just don’t want them to cost me the moon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 10 minutes ago, dangerous doug said: This is exactly what I was getting at but not sure I explained it well enough. I’m swaying towards just accepting it’ll be a bit narrower and getting a mog flange cut out of some thick plate as for time frame……I am in no rush, the axles have been sitting for 15years so no big deal. Just don’t want them to cost me the moon It doesn't have to be narrower, the mog flange could be cut the same thickness, but the machined shaft made longer to make up the length you require, one end of the shaft bored out to the diameter you need for the knuckle to fit into and externally machined to press flange onto and weld up, after welding flange face can be faced off just in case it distorts slightly with welding. The other end of the shaft can be machined internally to push over axle tube then weld up if you get what i mean, I could help once I get Sid and Gary's fairlead sorted, I have plate and sections of shaft Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 There is another alternative, if you remove the mog flanges off the mog axles, the flange could be bored out to accept a new piece of shaft and then shaft machined to suit axle you are going to use. Using the existing flanges would save some time although only if your happy to sacrifice the mog axle casings regards Stephen Edit, you can see my mog flanges getting machined on page 17 of my build thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Are the Mog flanges cast? Could you build them up with weld and then bore them out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 I have 2 ends of a donor mog case sitting in the bench but I’m leaning to getting new flanges made. Fresh steel on fresh steel and all that. They may need putting on a 4 jaw to machine a chamfer on them to allow the knuckle to locate but I think this is the quickest, most cost effective and neatest solution. I’ve also thought about sleeving the axle tube like you say l to get a bit of length back but again I’m not sure how strong that will be especially with the twisty twist from the portals. Plenty of options out there which is good Losing a bit of width may also not be such a bad thing but that will become apparent when it comes to the rears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, elbekko said: Are the Mog flanges cast? Could you build them up with weld and then bore them out? As far as I know they are steel. This is a good plan b though, I like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 47 minutes ago, Stellaghost said: There is another alternative, if you remove the mog flanges off the mog axles, the flange could be bored out to accept a new piece of shaft and then shaft machined to suit axle you are going to use. Using the existing flanges would save some time although only if your happy to sacrifice the mog axle casings regards Stephen Edit, you can see my mog flanges getting machined on page 17 of my build thread @Stellaghost! I managed my way through that monster of a thread and I think you may be on to something here! Can you remember the OD of the inner tube of the mog case by chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 9 minutes ago, dangerous doug said: @Stellaghost! I managed my way through that monster of a thread and I think you may be on to something here! Can you remember the OD of the inner tube of the mog case by chance? OD of inner tube is 80mm and wall thickness is 6mm Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Stellaghost said: OD of inner tube is 80mm and wall thickness is 6mm Regards Stephen Ahhh that’s a shame thought we were on to something there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 9 minutes ago, dangerous doug said: Ahhh that’s a shame thought we were on to something there! Not finished yet...lol Is the 60mm your looking for equate to 30mm each end, only asking as I have some 50mm plate that could be machined at some point if your patient, can check tomorrow if I have enough for 4 pieces Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 @Stellaghost you have a pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 Pottering on... Fourth one still to cut but needs gas axing off a larger piece Regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted April 6, 2023 Author Share Posted April 6, 2023 Ooof, you’re a true gentleman! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 Pottering on..... Close enough considering plate surface is pitted 20230407_130110.mp4 Multi tasking Another photo to follow ran out of room Regards Stephen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 As promised 20230407_134633.mp4 Regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted April 7, 2023 Author Share Posted April 7, 2023 Check you out doing 2 things at once! This just makes me want to get a lathe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 Along with a fairlead and wiring sid, Stephen do you ever actually sleep? I thought I was bad until I met you. Your a whole other level of can't sit still. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.