Clutch pedal goes to floor and will not return.

[soutie]

I am in the process of finishing my 1989 110s restoration. In doing so I have replaced the clutch, clutch slave and master cylinder. Yesterday I used a vacuum bleeder to bleed the system. The issue is that if you press the clutch it goes to the floor and does not come back. The clutch pedal is the later clutch pedal with the centre spring into the bushes. I took off the spring, examined it to see if it was broken and replaced it. It was very easy to do. Does this mean that the spring is faulty? Or could I have install it upside-down? When pressing the clutch there is resistance and then like a snap and it pulls it to the floor.

I tried adjusting it to the 14cm off the floor and that did not make any difference. Has anybody got any idea of the what the issue is?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by soutie
Not my photos

[steve b]

Air in the system still would be my first check. How did the pedal feel with the spring off?

Steve

[soutie]

It had resistance, but not as much as I expected.

[Retroanaconda]

They almost never bleed fully first time, I’ve always managed to get a working pedal (just about) and then the rest self-bleeds over a few dozen miles.

Is the slave cylinder fitted the correct way up, with the bleed nipple at the top?

[Snagger]

Checking the correct orientation of the slave and its bleed is the first thing I’d look at.  With that done, I’d try a mechanical bleed rather than vacuum, or an EziBleed.  Do it with the car nose elevated to ensure the slave air pocket is at the Union rather than piston end of the cylinder.

I have never tried bleeding one, but my understanding of the later Defender clutch system is that the pedal spring acts overcentre to assist in pressing the pedal on the later half of the motion, so once past the “peak”, it relies on the pressure plate springs and hydraulics back pressure to push the pedal back initially.  If the system isn’t fully bled, then that back pressure will be absent.

[MR-HIPPO]

Mine was a complete dick to bleed after fitting the later type pedal, I ended up pumping the pedal up and down by hand to get pressure, then while holding pressure on the pedal, opening the bleed valve to purge the air. It took several cycles to get any kind of return from the pedal

The bleed valve on mine is on an extension pipe, and sits attached to a bracket on top of the gear selector housing, pointing upwards. Bleeding can be done manually from the driver's seat.  The nipple is accessed by simply removing the rubber gear stick gaiter in the cab.

 

That first bleed with the new pedal set up seemed a lot harder than it should have been, for sure.

Edited June 11, 2023 by MR-HIPPO

[Snagger]

A remote bleed up by the master cylinder is a great addition.  Another thing on the “one day” list…

[ped]

that does sound a very good addition and one'm going to add to my build
 

[soutie]

The bleed nipple is at the top. Absolute pig to get to with a normal 11mm spanner as too little room to crack it by a quarter. I have a small 5/16 spanner that fits that I am using. I will try re-bleed it and see what happens.

Where do you by the remote bleed setup? Or do you need to get somebody to make them up for you?

[Bowie69]

Can you get a socket on it with a UJ? 

[steve b]

16 minutes ago, soutie said:

 

Where do you by the remote bleed setup? Or do you need to get somebody to make them up for you?

Sealey have a pressure pump res. with the correct fitting cap for Defender hyd. caps. If you buy it you'll wonder why you didn't buy one years ago. 

Steve

[western]

23 hours ago, Snagger said:

A remote bleed up by the master cylinder is a great addition.  Another thing on the “one day” list…

I did that my post is in here somewhere, my remote bleed point if on left inner wing near the screen wash tank. 

[western]

20 hours ago, soutie said:

 

Where do you by the remote bleed setup? Or do you need to get somebody to make them up for you?

David at Llama 4x4 made mine just need to speak to him & have measurements of the hoses to give to him. 

[MR-HIPPO]

20 hours ago, soutie said:

Where do you by the remote bleed setup? Or do you need to get somebody to make them up for you?

I made mine.

I ordered THIS inline brake pipe connector from eBay.

The remote bleed is simply a length of brake line with a male fitting at each end, this runs from the bleed port on the clutch slave, turns back on itself 180 degrees, and runs upwards along the back of the bell housing / gearbox towards the gear stick. The top (gearstick end) of the remote pipe screws into the female fitting. The bleed nipple screws into the other side of the female fitting.

The long hollow female fitting also has a small plate welded to it in the middle at 90 degrees, this has an 8 mm hole drilled in the other end and is attached to one of the bolts on top of the remote housing

[steve b]

22 hours ago, steve b said:

Sealey have a pressure pump res. with the correct fitting cap for Defender hyd. caps. If you buy it you'll wonder why you didn't buy one years ago. 

Steve

uhoh, I completely mis-read your remote question but the pressure bleeder is worth a look. A remote bleed fixed to the bodywork will need a flexi pipe but fixed to the engine at the breather pipe area can be rigid. Worth it for less hassle as access is tight on the 4 cyl. LT77 location.

Steve

[Snagger]

You can mimic the existing hydraulic line with a combination of rigid pipe and flexible hose, or you can just have a length of flexible stainless braided hose made up for the full distance.  The hose will be easier to fit, not needing careful shaping and not needing fiddly weaving through small spaces.  

[soutie]

Thanks to all for the ideas. I will try and bleed it again and see how I get on.

[soutie]

I have procured a Sealey positive brake and clutch bleeder. I will try it this weekend and let you know how I get on.

[Roverdrive]

I had a similar issue after fitting the LOF clutch pedal spring to my 300 tdi. It would go straight to the floor and not return. Note that this was just changing the spring on a working system. I needed to fit a stop bolt to the forward face of the pedal box to stop me pressing the pedal to far and allowing the spring to to too far over centre. I believe some pedal boxes may already have this adjustment.

[soutie]

Thanks for all the suggestions. My Seal bleeder cap does not fit the clutch master cylinder so I bodged a cap and bled it. I then adjusted the pedal height. In the majority of cases it now returns. The more I pump it the better the return. I will try and bleed it it and look to put a pedal stop bolt in.