4x4's are getting some stick again

[Les Henson]

Well we are the devil yet again.

'Chelsea Cab'

'Satans Tractor'

There's a couple of new ones for me anyway.

Recent evidence proves that 4x4's are twice more likely to kill someone. So - not the person driving it then, or the idiot that walks out in the roasd in order to be hit.

An 11-year old girl is in hospital tonight after being hit by a 4x4 in Shrewton, Wilts.

So she wouldn't be in hospital if it was a transit van, lorry, taxi, Tractor, etc etc?

This victimisation is getting beyond stupidity

Les

[Budgie]

It's been on there all day Les.

The lunchtime news on ITV was talking about "Gas Guzzlers" and "polluters" but (apparently) the BMJ report makes no reference to the vehicles being either of these!! Just ITN making it more sensational that it actually is.

As someone on another forum said: It doesn't take a report to realise that your going to get injured if you step in front of any vehicle, not just 4x4!!

I don't think warning stickers will do it either. I mean, how much time do they think someone normally has before impacked with the front of any vehicle, enough time to read a warning sticker???

"Oh hang on, this is one of them 4x4 things that's going to kill me, think I'll step in front of this Astra instead"

[siggy]

Also when I bought my landrover I noticed the fact that I could see further down the highway and could therefore react quicker to problems in front and also No matter how hard I tried there is noway to excelerate as quiclky as any "eurobox" There the 4x4 must be safer than any euro box because I can see the thwack stepping off the pavement sooner (read further away) than the eurobox and therefore can stop sooner (read because I'm travelling slower).....

Also how many times have you had pedestrians just step off the kerb

I had one, an old biddy, when I had my mini. Their was a zebra crossing 200 yrds up the road but she decide to step out without looking I stopped (quickly) felt a thump and turned around in seat to see a pair of legs dangling off my roof. Got out and found a biker perched on my roof (apparently he couldn't stop in time) thank the lord he and I were ok but the old biddy hobbled away as if it wasn't her fault............

happens more and more nowadays

[jules]

Does anyone know what ratio of boy racers there is in relation to 4x4's is as how often do you see a astra or nova speeding through a housing estate compaired to a 4x4.

I had it last night on the way home from a 13hr day(a 45 mile drive from Chichester to Chandlers Ford) on the M27 following a Hyundi 4x4 in my disco 2 both doing 90-95 (ok I know a bit too fast) but the road was fairly empty. as we were moving form the slow lane to the midle lane and back again between headgend and eastleigh at one piont we were both overtaking a van and trailer which inturn was overtaking a very slow car. As we both overtook a corsa was trying to overtake the pair of us by wedging itself under my rear wing and flashing so a dabed the brake pedle a few times to get him to back off but nothing he just sat there untill we got past the van and pulled back in to the midle lane then the slow lane and maintained our speed knobhead how ever moved on to the x5 futher up that was following a ford mundain in the midle lane and undertook those to which royaly oissed pff the x5 and hand signels were exchanged for the next 6 miles till my junction he either barged or undertook remember he was doing over 100mph.

and people complain about us

[FridgeFreezer]

At no point in that report (I heard it on Radio 1) did they say how likely you are to be hit by a 4x4 in the first place

I have a van, a landy, and the boring normal eurobox. I don't like driving the car because I can't see a bleedin' thing that's going on past the back bumper of the car in front. In the van I can see way ahead, which to me is a LOT safer.

Look at accidents, how often do you see a pile up of cars on the motorway but almost all the HGV's have avoided hitting anything and stopped safely (despite having quite a big stopping distance) because they can see a mile ahead.

[jules]

Good point

[Kev Baldwin]

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed how the ITN news has turned into the televisual equivalent of The Sun?

Trevor Mcdonald has to be the most over-rated presenter on TV

[VeryDisco]

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed how the ITN news has turned into the televisual equivalent of The Sun?

Trevor Mcdonald has to be the most over-rated presenter on TV

Too true - I've given up watching ITN.

I initially bought my Discovery because it protects me. I had a nasty accident in a phewgoat 106 (not my fault) and realised that having the dashboard on your lap is not something that often happens with a 4x4.

I'm a firm believer that we are responsible for our own safety, and that of our children. I do not need the government to take away the sharp knives in my kitchen because I may cut myself, I know that if I do my own vehicle maintainance I may loose skin off my knuckles. If I walk in front of a car, I am damn sure I will get hurt.

Hmmn - think my hormones may be active ATM!

[FridgeFreezer]

So to recap, boys and girls:

DEADLY 4x4:

FRIENDLY 2WD:

So whatever you do if you see a fiat panda and a truck coming down the road, dive in front of the truck. Glad we got that sorted, I'm off to tell all the local kids

[jamesm]

how often do you see a astra or nova speeding through a housing estate

Fairly often, in my rear view mirror - then they catch up and have to do 30mph like me!

I've saved some of them from getting speeding tickets on my trips to work recently. There's a village on the way which most people absolutely fly through. I don't, and usually a fair few end up behind me. However, once every few weeks a policeman comes to hide behind a tree with his Gatso - and looks pretty cheesed off when I arrive after a big gap in the traffic doing bang on the speed limit. Anyone would think he was on a bonus scheme

[yellow]

I got torpedoed saturday evening whilst overtaking on the highway. I was doing the legal speed limit when the chav behind me, who was doing his speed limit, decided that it took too long and rammed into the back of the Voyager I was driving. (Luckily no real damage)

Me and my pregnant wife did not think that it was funny at all, and whilst slowing down called the police. On the hard shoulder the guys came out of the car and started threatening me, throwing abusive expletives at my wife, all because they thought it was my fault for not getting out of the way. The front of their car was completely messed up.

At that time the police arrived, and told them nicely but surely that they had it all wrong, handcuffing them in the mean time. Seemed that the police stopped one car further up the highway that had seen everything and had almost flipped sideways due to the debris left by our lads.

The police said that it is all up to driver responsibility. They also said that I should be lucky for driving such a large vehicle, as a simple eurobox would not have survived...

The lads are up for attempted manslaughter and might be getting 4 to 5 years. No sticker in the world would prevent any of this behaviour to go away, and these people are much more likely to run over any one than the usually responsible 4x4 driver (...of which I am one as well)

[FridgeFreezer]

How often do we hear Greenpeace et al describe 4x4's as "Big, slow and noisy"?

Well surely if it's big, slow and noisy a child will see/hear it coming and not run out in front of it, or if they do it'll be going slower than a "normal" car and therefore be more likely to stop, or do less damage?

Now take the same argument and apply it to a Toyota Prius running in electric mode through a street of parked cars at 35 mph - it's SILENT and small(ish) so is not even going to be visible over the other vehicles.

Anyone who heard my 109 will tell you they could hear it coming from half a mile away - it's a safety thing, see? In fact I might make it even safer this time round B)

[Jen]

Interestingly enough, I was working at a Sustainable Transport show in the centre of Winchester a couple of years ago and they had a selection of electric cars there. Throughout the day they were giving test drives in them, but they had to stop after lunchtime - the pedestrians were getting upset and complaining that they couldn't hear the car approach from behind them... there was almost one quite nasty incident with a pushchair, the Mum in question simply hadn't heard the car approaching behind her. If they do take off, I for one will be keeping an eye on the accident stats

...oh, and they don't travel far on their electric.... I wonder if the electricity they use is produced by sustainable methods.

[siggy]

I wonder if the electricity they use is produced by sustainable methods.

yes electricity is produced by burning of fossil fuels or by splitting the atom in a sustainable way therefore producing sustainable electricity..............

is that what you mean?

[LR90]

How often do we hear Greenpeace et al describe 4x4's as "Big, slow and noisy"?

Well surely if it's big, slow and noisy a child will see/hear it coming and not run out in front of it, or if they do it'll be going slower than a "normal" car and therefore be more likely to stop, or do less damage?

Now take the same argument and apply it to a Toyota Prius running in electric mode through a street of parked cars at 35 mph - it's SILENT and small(ish) so is not even going to be visible over the other vehicles.

Anyone who heard my 109 will tell you they could hear it coming from half a mile away - it's a safety thing, see? In fact I might make it even safer this time round B)

Too right Fridge, always new my Simex's where safety aids

[Cartman]

A day late but go to The Times Online and they are running another discussion on the 'evils' of 4x4 vehicles.......again!

Time online 4x4

Paul

[bishbosh]

Interestingly enough, I was working at a Sustainable Transport show in the centre of Winchester a couple of years ago and they had a selection of electric cars there. Throughout the day they were giving test drives in them, but they had to stop after lunchtime - the pedestrians were getting upset and complaining that they couldn't hear the car approach from behind them... there was almost one quite nasty incident with a pushchair, the Mum in question simply hadn't heard the car approaching behind her. If they do take off, I for one will be keeping an eye on the accident stats

...oh, and they don't travel far on their electric.... I wonder if the electricity they use is produced by sustainable methods.

I'm sorry, but any mother that relies on hearing alone when preparing to cross the road with a child is a candidate for a Darwin award.

[Jen]

I'm sorry, but any mother that relies on hearing alone when preparing to cross the road with a child is a candidate for a Darwin award.

I agree - but in the oh so sensible manner of most these people, they were driving them around the *pedestrian* area....

(although to be fair, we all had to drive around the pedestrian area to set the stands up... but there was no problem with the 'normal' cars)

[al cope]

I agree - but in the oh so sensible manner of most these people, they were driving them around the *pedestrian* area....

(although to be fair, we all had to drive around the pedestrian area to set the stands up... but there was no problem with the 'normal' cars)

But most of the reports I heard were banging on about 4x4's needing to carry a health warning, about pedestrian accidents! Where do we want to put this warning, on the front bumper springs to mind. "If you can read this-its going to hurt"

Stupidity gone mad

Al

[FridgeFreezer]

Stupidity gone mad

Or madness gone stupid?

[hedley]

all vaid points guys, but the trouble with putting it all on here is that your preaching to the converted. if everyone who has written a post on here abour this sat down and wrote a letter of complaint to ITN, containing all the points covered here then it mite make them think twice.

it mite not, but theres no harm in trying

[v8bertha]

all vaid points guys, but the trouble with putting it all on here is that your preaching to the converted. if everyone who has written a post on here abour this sat down and wrote a letter of complaint to ITN, containing all the points covered here then it mite make them think twice.

it mite not, but theres no harm in trying

Blimey... that shut everybody up!!

Have you all run off to write you letters?

Actually, 's'not a bad idea. Think I may consider it!

[siggy]

hedley

I am sicky today could you post the link as I haven't got the energy to search for it

[v8bertha]

hedley

I am sicky today could you post the link as I haven't got the energy to search for it

Go get 'em tiger!

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[Guest MJG]

Or madness gone stupid?

I have to say all this anti 4x4 stuff is really getting on my chebs now.

It is almost as if somebody is trying to distract Joe Public from the real problems that face this country, like

- the fact we are about to release criminals into the community because there are not enough prisons to house them,

- or the fact that the current administration is in the process of privatising the NHS (by stealth admittedly but it is being done so cleverly that most people won't realised it has happened until they notice the nurses in their local hospital are sporting Group 4 logos on their uniforms!!!) ,

- or the fact you can't register with an NHS dentist in may parts of the UK, -

- or that it is not the size/weight of vehicles or how many driven wheels they have that threatens to overwhelm the UK roads system but rather the sheer number of vehicles on the road (during the school run in particular).

It is blindingly obvious that if a pedestrian is hit by a heavy slab fronted 4X4 they are more likely to be injured (particularly one sporting nudge or bull bars), just as they would be if they were hit by a Renault Espace or Ford Galaxy/Transit.... you don't really need any sort of degree to work that one out.

But this must really be seen in context, as asked above what are the stats on the lives been saved or injuries reduced because a 4X4 driver has been able to see and assess the road much further ahead than somebody in a tradtional vehicle... the truth is no body knows this figure because I suggest it has never been researched.

However the Headline

'Pedestrian saved by great view of road ahead'

does not quite have the same impact (no pun intened) as

'11 year old girl mown down by 4X4'

so it will be for a while we will have to endure this rubbish... the only hope is that we can ride this nonsense out until these idiots move on to something else (such as ageing 46 year olds driving ultra fast Hot Hatchbacks as being anti social......... The problem is if the media gather the support and pace they did for the anti-hunting lobby I'm afraid we will all eventually be condemned to driving Smart cars for the rest of our lives......

As I've said before ' rubbish I'm off to France................!'