** MegaSquirting a V8 - "Basics of How to" ... The A-Z Saga

[FridgeFreezer]

Oh by the way, mine runs

Congrats Quentin! I didn't hear my phone ring once

This should be an MSQ from my old 3.5 Rangie, but it is NOT configured for EDIS etc. so you will need to load it in MegaTune, go to the tuning screen and export the fuel table:

Then re-load your settings (so all the spark stuff is correct) and go to the same menu and import the fuel table. Hopefully that will be something close.

[FridgeFreezer]

The ecu is configured with a spark output switching on low (5 volt down to zero), i dont know of Edis will work with this configuration ?.

If it only has one spark output which is 5v / switched ground then it certainly won't work directly with coil packs. EDIS does use a 5v output (and gives as 12v input) to/from the ECU so it's possible your ECU is built for EDIS. However, you need to confirm this as in standard form the ECU will not work with EDIS, you effectively stick the EDIS PIP signal in halfway up the input circuit to the ECU and generate the 5v SAW output from one of the LED drivers. It's not complicated but you need to confirm what the inside of your ECU looks like befoer you blow it up by wiring it up wrong.

[Belgian_Dude]

Hi John,

I know, made a point of it not to call you until it ran That way, figuring it all out myself, I'm sure never to forget it again.

So, a bit more info:

been planning this for a couple of months now ...

Drew out my specific wiring scheme to make sure to have everything in one place, not have to combine multiple schemes and generally get a better feel and understanding from working with it. (I can share if anyone's interested, but I still need to add the last couple if things that changed mid-install)

I ripped out the flapper wiring last weekend (and alarm loom patched in it, and LPG wires patched in it, and the second LPG install's wires patched into the patch ... ).

I'd prepped as much as possible upfront:

-set of bosch (fancy green coloured) injectors out of a 4.0 BOSCH P38a to replace the old flapper ones and get rid of the resistor pack

-the fuel rail that went with them

-intake plenum of a 3,9 to replace mine which had been molested by the previous owner

-new exhaust pieces between collectors and center pot (downpipes, Y-pipe) with the bung TIG'd in the Y-pipe

-...

so after ripping out the old harness, I changed my mind about ECU placement. Originally wanted to put it on top of the dashboard (mainly because it would look very cool there), but decided against that because I didn't feel like ripping apart the dash. Didn't want to have it under the seat either, as it would suck finally having waterproof ignition but drowning the control box ;-) So I decided to put it between the front seats, at approx shoulder height. Figured if I'm that deep in it, I've got other problems

Built a bracket for the coils, and one for the EDIS8 module. Stainless, both, ofc

I started by putting ECU, fuse box, FP and Mrelay on a plaque of wood, and connecting all of those together in the comfort of my bench. then moved the board into the car, and pulled the wiring loom through the firewall. Connected it all up and fired away

Mistakes I made:

-Fuel pump didn't run on first power to ECU. Connected the connector on top of the chassis, worked better Quick fix.

-put the trigger wheel on the wrong way around (missing tooth 5 teeth before the sensor rather than after, because apparently "ahead" is too difficult a word to grasp at 2am when you've been up since 6am and been doing that all week Quick fix.

-didn't pay enough attention to the variables in edis8-coils-plugs connections, had it all wrong; quick fix, took the opportunity to label the wires and coils, shouldn't miss again ;-)

-ehm ... what else ... that's it I think

Effectively first started on sunday around noon, but ran pretty roughly on the standard settings (guess those were fridge's 4,6 and stumppuller settings). But boy was I glad it ran Didn't have any further time that day so I drove it like that to our team presentation and back. Ran hugely rich, didn't idle unless I held a minimum of 1% throttle,

this morning, I finally found a working link to a general MSQ - Fridge's "MS_N_EDIS_Popular_Defaults.msq"

Loaded that up, immediately ran better - it idled, and actually ran pretty well. Went for a run around the block ... whoa! Where yesterday it would "die" if I gave too much throttle, this morning it pulled, pulled some more, and kept pulling - whoa ;-)

did three rounds of logging - VE analyzing in MLV - log again, the two first edits made it better, the third version made it idle poorly so I went back to v2.

I'm still "playing around" to get to know the software, which files have what settings in them, etc. and already it's running as well if not better than it was before. Somehow, it magically settled to a perfect idle, with barely any hunting, and goes like it should. Of course this isn't the end, when I'll have all softwares properly figured out I'll be going after the perfect tune - this is fun ;-)

TODO:

-TPS readout: foot down reads 72%, it did so in the beginning, does so now. I know I got it right at some point between saturday 12pm and this morning, but don't remember with which file/setting/... I don't get where this is stored: it's something the ECU should know, so I would've thought it would be baked into the firmware, just like the ECU knows the values for the rover CTS - but then it's changed and changed back, and as I haven't updated / changed the firmware, it must be in the MSQ. The "calibrate tps" function of Megatune does nothing. Need to go through the MSQ I guess

-confirm the static EDIS advance / trigger wheel and sensor alignment - first it didn't idle, then I forgot because I was having too much fun driving it

-add the LPG part of things, then finish / protect the wiring loom, and definitively affix the ECU board.

-spark: basically haven't looked at it Ditto with the AFR target table, but I'm assuming (ie, making an ass out of myself) that should be pretty ok as-is.

-Temp sensors: I've used a std rover temp sensor (coolant) for both coolant and IAT. They seem to read approx 10°C too hot permanently, need to confirm.

John, thanks for the file, all the other links were dead Now I've got something to compare my VE table against!

attached, what I started from, thx to JU, and what I'm happily running now (after two relatively short logs).

Greetz,

Quentin

[elbekko]

The gauges look cool

[zoltan]

Can anybody suggest from experience a usb serial port adaptor that works with Megasquirt software? Some do, some don't. Since all the laptops I have with serial ports have issues I have do go down this route reluctantly and having a brand and model number does save time

Thanks

[Richard Lane]

Hi All,

I have been following this Megasquirt stuff on here for a while. I have bit the bullet and started putting together my own kit that I bought second hand off a mate of mine. It is a V3 PCB with a Megasquirt 1 CPU in it. I am soldering up the board and so far have soldered on the resisters, the CPU socket and the DC37 and DB9 plugs. I have been following the instructions on this site http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/build_manual.htm

My truck is a bit of a beast being a 1984 110 Cab Chassis with a 7 foot steel tray on the back. It has the Australian P76 engine in her which is a 4.4 litre rover motor (taller deck height). I plan to fit EDIS ignition using the Megasquirt to control it and later on fit a Rover 3.5 or 3.9 EFI intake manifold. I think I am going to cut off the throttle body off the rover manifold and TIG weld a mounting plate to attach a Ford Falcon (Aussie car 4.0 litre inline 6 cylinder) throttle body. I also intend to drill out the injector bosses in the manifold to also fit Ford Falcon injectors (much cheaper in Australia than LR ones).

I also am going to run LPG on this beast from my 160 litre cylinder I have for her.

I noticed in my kit I am missing the diodes and was wondering which supplier would be the best to talk to about getting some more. Also I wish to know if anyone has setup the switchable ignition maps using the modification listed here http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_Extra_Hardware_Manual.htm#mapswitch

Also is there any bit difference between the two manifolds on the EFI rover v8 motors, the 3.5 ones and the 3.9 ones?

Cheers

Rich

[waxen]

Hi All,

I have been following this Megasquirt stuff on here for a while. I have bit the bullet and started putting together my own kit that I bought second hand off a mate of mine. It is a V3 PCB with a Megasquirt 1 CPU in it. I am soldering up the board and so far have soldered on the resisters, the CPU socket and the DC37 and DB9 plugs. I have been following the instructions on this site http://www.msextra.c...uild_manual.htm

My truck is a bit of a beast being a 1984 110 Cab Chassis with a 7 foot steel tray on the back. It has the Australian P76 engine in her which is a 4.4 litre rover motor (taller deck height). I plan to fit EDIS ignition using the Megasquirt to control it and later on fit a Rover 3.5 or 3.9 EFI intake manifold. I think I am going to cut off the throttle body off the rover manifold and TIG weld a mounting plate to attach a Ford Falcon (Aussie car 4.0 litre inline 6 cylinder) throttle body. I also intend to drill out the injector bosses in the manifold to also fit Ford Falcon injectors (much cheaper in Australia than LR ones).

I also am going to run LPG on this beast from my 160 litre cylinder I have for her.

I noticed in my kit I am missing the diodes and was wondering which supplier would be the best to talk to about getting some more. Also I wish to know if anyone has setup the switchable ignition maps using the modification listed here http://www.msextra.c...l.htm#mapswitch

Also is there any bit difference between the two manifolds on the EFI rover v8 motors, the 3.5 ones and the 3.9 ones?

Cheers

Rich

Hi Richard,

I set up the active high input version of the switchable maps, Works well. The reason I chose it over the simpler one is that it offers a bit more circuit protection.

IIRC the Magna injectors fit into the rover manifold.............regarding differences between the 3.5 and 3.9 I think they are pretty much the same, I thought they were different but it is the injector mount plates and fuel rail that are different.

Try RS components or Jaycar for the Diodes

[heath robinson]

Zoltan, have you considered something like this, from DIYAutotune in the states. I don't know if it's a good idea, but I have been looking into getting one of these and one of the relay boards for my MS project.

Richard, I haven't done it yet, but I'm going to get my MS to be switchable between LPG and Petrol, running both banks of injectors directly.

[FridgeFreezer]

Zoltan - it is hard to tell as everyone sells things under their own name, there are only 3 or 4 USB-to-Serial chips on the market. We have found that FTDI are the ones that work. If you search eBay for "FTDI" you should find plenty of sellers offering adapter cables with FTDI chips in them.

I noticed in my kit I am missing the diodes and was wondering which supplier would be the best to talk to about getting some more. Also I wish to know if anyone has setup the switchable ignition maps using the modification listed here http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_Extra_Hardware_Manual.htm#mapswitch

Also is there any bit difference between the two manifolds on the EFI rover v8 motors, the 3.5 ones and the 3.9 ones?

Richard, which diodes are you missing, or is it all of them? Any electronics supplier should be able to supply them, over here that would be the likes of RS Components, Farnell, CPC, Maplins, DigiKey, Mouser, Rapid, etc. I don't know if any of those are in your area. The part numbers (eg 1N4001) are universal, but if they're not stocked you should be able to find something else that does the job from the basic specs.

I have set up several switchable ignition ECU's, but never been involved with them after building them so probably not of much use I have posted pictures further up this thread of the internal mods to the ECU for switching inputs and extra outputs.

There is b*gger all difference between any of the Rover V8 plenums from 3.5 to 4.6, the manifold casting stays the same too although drillings etc. do move about as hardware changes. The main change was from flapper to hotwire, when the injectors went from hose-tail type to clamp-down-by-fuel-rail type.

[Bowie69]

Not being an expert on the P76 4.4 litre engine, but would the 3.5/3.9l inlet manifold even fit? Seems to me you would struggle, as taller deck height = wider V-shape?

*actually, just checked in David Hardcastle's book, you'll need to make up spacers to fit the EFI manifold....

[waxen]

Not being an expert on the P76 4.4 litre engine, but would the 3.5/3.9l inlet manifold even fit? Seems to me you would struggle, as taller deck height = wider V-shape?

*actually, just checked in David Hardcastle's book, you'll need to make up spacers to fit the EFI manifold....

The spacer plates are available over here, it's a pretty common modification...........Speaking of which I have a spare unused set<_<

[zoltan]

Zoltan - it is hard to tell as everyone sells things under their own name, there are only 3 or 4 USB-to-Serial chips on the market. We have found that FTDI are the ones that work. If you search eBay for "FTDI" you should find plenty of sellers offering adapter cables with FTDI chips in them.

Thanks, my no-name one doesn't respond with Omex. I'll order one of the FTDI types.

[V8 Freak]

Zoltan,

I bought a cheapy PCMCIA adapter that worked fine on Omex but MS didn't like it at all.

I bought a £5 cheapy from Ebalg and it works fine with MS.... My link

Neil

[elbekko]

Can anybody suggest from experience a usb serial port adaptor that works with Megasquirt software? Some do, some don't. Since all the laptops I have with serial ports have issues I have do go down this route reluctantly and having a brand and model number does save time

Thanks

I have a Belkin F5U109 that worked perfectly with it, but not for a 64-bit OS though. W7 found the drivers automatically.

[Richard Lane]

Thanks for your help every1.

Yes the P76 donk has a taller deck height and therefore a sandwich plate is required between the rover 3.5 /3.9 v8 intake manifolds and this engine. I do intend to get some plates for my engine to fit the manifold. I am told this conversion makes the 4.4 go very sweetly.

Waxen would you be interested in selling your spare adaptor plates?

Fridgefreezer, yes I am going to go and see a parts supplier of electronic bits to see if they have what I need on the shelf. Farnells are in Australia but when I searched for the diode I wanted it came up with 17 results and I was a unsure of which one is the right one and which one isnt.

Sounds like the switchable ingition is the ticket. I will check the posts earlier posts to have a look see.

I guess you will all want progress photos and info as I go?

Cheers

Rich

[zoltan]

General question: Does the ECU need to be seeing 12 volts before it will establish comms with Megatune/PC/USB-Serial adaptor?

Just trying to zero in on which bit isn't working. I'm not convinced that either of the USB-Serial adaptors I now have work

[bobtail84]

General question: Does the ECU need to be seeing 12 volts before it will establish comms with Megatune/PC/USB-Serial adaptor?

Just trying to zero in on which bit isn't working. I'm not convinced that either of the USB-Serial adaptors I now have work

Yes the ECU needs 12v to establish comms.

[FridgeFreezer]

The ECU also needs a good 12V to burn settings to memory. For pratting about on the desk you can run it from a PP9 battery.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

General question: Does the ECU need to be seeing 12 volts before it will establish comms with Megatune/PC/USB-Serial adaptor?

Just trying to zero in on which bit isn't working. I'm not convinced that either of the USB-Serial adaptors I now have work

Yes, the ECU needs to see a good 12 volt on pin 28 before reliable comms can be established. However, with some older laptops that have an RS232 output you can be fooled into thinking you have comms as it will sometimes wrongly report a link success .......

[bobtail84]

For pratting about on the desk you can run it from a PP9 battery.

But don't be tempted to lick the battery....

[V8 EFI]

If it only has one spark output which is 5v / switched ground then it certainly won't work directly with coil packs. EDIS does use a 5v output (and gives as 12v input) to/from the ECU so it's possible your ECU is built for EDIS. However, you need to confirm this as in standard form the ECU will not work with EDIS

Fridge,

It does has 4 outputs; 1AC1A,1AC1B,1AC2A,1AC2B so that should'nt be a problem i guess . Rightnow i'm running without (mega)sparks anyway.

Quentin,

Please share your project and photos, i've allready learned so much from others.

I've downloaded Quentin's fuel maps and planned to start tuning last weekend.

Before starting up i decided to messure the volts to the fuelpump (while running on lpg and no petrol injectors connected).

When cold the voltage drops occasionally from 14 to 0 volts and back again, when warm it seems stable.

I reccon this mightbe because of my outsettings ?. I've set all the outputsettings to off to start one thing at the time but maybe this is'nt smart to do ?

The ms1 i've bought has the following configuration; (written on the back of the case)

Tach = Spr1 (JS3)

Switchmap = Spr2

FAN = JS0 (Spr3)

It has wastedspark, switchable maps and baro correction, when warm it has no resets, i have a good rpm reading and a multiple (earth) wires down to the engineblock.

I'm a little bit confused about the outputsettings, mostly about the terms JS0,spr X5 or X7 and so on. If wasted spark then....else.... , if extra baro then

Does anyone know how to set the outputs with the above info, wich ones do i have to set and wich not ?.

Many thanks, Frederik.

[Belgian_Dude]

Hi Frederik,

I'll select & resize the better pics tonight

But, be careful, I've honestly no idea how wrong my maps are! they were posted to be checked by an adult at the most, definitely not used by anyone ;-)

I mean, I guess you could use them, but I'd suggest you start from the same baseline as I did, namely Fridge's defaults.

just ... be careful ;-) I'd hate to melt my engine block, but would hate to melt yours even more ;-) (although, melting mine would mean top gear on the 4,6 crank, pistons and block laying around here )

Greetz

Quentin

ps: whereabouts in holland?

[FridgeFreezer]

Frederick, it seems you are confused about what your ECU is and how it works.

The IAC connections are used if you plug in an MS-II daughterboard to control a 4-wire stepper idle control valve. They will most likely not be connected to anything in your ECU.

When cold the voltage drops occasionally from 14 to 0 volts and back again, when warm it seems stable.

I reccon this mightbe because of my outsettings ?. I've set all the outputsettings to off to start one thing at the time but maybe this is'nt smart to do ?

The output settings do not control the fuel pump, it is a separate dedicated output not a "general purpose" one. It may shut off if you coast (over-run) for a long time and you have the ECU set up for over-run fuel cut.

Tach = Spr1 (JS3)

Switchmap = Spr2

FAN = JS0 (Spr3)

That does not mean an awful lot - JS2 & 3 are spare inputs to the CPU on the board (see picture) they are controlled by the software settings and need additional circuits to make them do something useful - drive a relay, take input from a switch, etc. You can see in my picture I used JS2/3 as outputs, wired to transistors on the proto area, and then out to the connector on pins SPR3/4. You need to check what is inside your ECU. It should be the case that there are three transistors wired to SPR1,2,3 to enable the inputs/outputs to work.

It has wastedspark, switchable maps and baro correction

It can't "have" wasted spark, that is down to how you wire the ignition system. What it can have are additional coil driver transistors in the case which allow you to drive coils from the CPU's output pins. For a V8 with wasted spark you would need Q16 in place plus three more.

Switchable maps is a software feature, it can be controlled by an external input on JS6 (from memory) but only with a suitable input circuit as I mentioned.

Baro correction is also a software feature, for true baro correction you can fit an extra MAP sensor into the case but there is very little need for this, so I would be surprised if you have this. Again, you need to check what is inside your ECU, posting pictures would be very helpful.

I'm a little bit confused about the outputsettings, mostly about the terms JS0,spr X5 or X7 and so on.

It is a bit complicated because the software packs a lot into a small space. JS_ are the spare pins of the CPU not used for normal operation. These, as well as things like the LED's are mapped in software to output "flags" if they are not used for other things like spark outputs.

Again, this will depend on what things are wired up inside your ECU - some people may use different things as outputs.

[Bowie69]

OK, I have been running MS for over a year now, however, after an encounter with some particularly sludgy/sandy clay I have replaced my engine with a 4.0 cross-bolt block from a P38, originally I was running a standard 3.9l V8 in my RRC.

I had the tuning pretty well sorted on the 3.9, and considering is was blowing 3 out of 8 cylinders into the valley, it was going very nicely thank you

SO, I swap the engines around, and since then I just haven't been able to get it to tune correctly... software setup is exactly the same, MS1 v3 board built by our own FF, not getting resets, and actually it goes like hot snot, especially since I stuck a 1.410 ratio Lt230 in it.

I'm using narrow band lambda with Megatune for logging, and MegalogViewer for automatically tuning the VE, spark map remains pretty unchanged from the 3.9 version, which is the same as one of the MSQs posted on here somewhere (think it is from HfH actually ).

The engine is in a mild state of tune, Kent H200 cam, rhoads lifters, ported heads, no idea what it is pushing, but even as it is it must be a chunk over 200BHP. The truck is a 1991 auto(hence the funny VE table pattern) RRC on 33" JT2s, standard axles

Right, that's the background.... the problem is that every time I go out logging, all MLV wants to do is up the fueling, and I am not talking a little here (which was kind of expected), but a *LOT*... I am talking clouds of black smoke, particularly on acceleration, under load or on no load.

Some screenshots of before and after....

Old VE:

New VE:

Req fuel (unchanged):

Exhaust gas settings:

Only thing I think I have changed was the controller authority on the exhaust gas settings, from 5% to 15%, just to make doubly sure I wasn't going to toast the engine running too lean...

Coolant temp appears the same as before(thanks to Kamdiffs steve for re-plumbing ideas), thermostat opening and a while later the fans kicking in (82C stat, 87 on, 84 off), fuel rail/reg/injectors is from the P38, as is the manifold, but plenum/trumpets from the 3.9.

I have tinkered with AE, but as I understand it, it only increases fuel for a short amount of time, to stop the engine stuttering on pickup....?

MAP value appears to be OK, idle around 40, hits 98 on full throttle.

Changed the lambda probe as it was all I could really think was causing it...

I'd appreciate any help someone has the time to give... really not sure where to go from here...

Couple of attachments :

MSQ

Recent Datalog

Many thanks to anyone that can point me in the right direction

Cheers,

Pete.

*edit* If anyone thinks this should be in a different post, please feel free to move it

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

IMHo 15% is to much, fine if you doing rough tuning but try to make the MLV work harder AGAINST whats in the ecu

switch back to 5% then log for say 45 minutes to 1 Hour, then use MLV and switch the setting to VERY HARD and then

see what that does and report back. Aviod logging in the rain or driving through deep water as this will chill

the NB Sensor in secs and cause false readings

Look forward to a report back

Nige