Building for the future

[LR90]

If you look at kit cars, they do exactly the same build it for the SVA then bolt all the goodies....total farce.....

But isn't that what is being encouraged where we promote competition in 'road legal' vehicles?

Surely better to have a no holds barred off road only class so peeps can focus on building truly novel trucks without compromise for on road use or the SVA. Then maybe being more restrictive on any RTV classes to avoid further exacerbating the current situation where it seems some are suggesting a good proportion of the entrants are not road legal anyway which in the long term can't be good for them or the sport.

[filthy boy]

That's because a large proportion of the Pirate 'Clique' are so far up their own bottoms they need a lantern and so anti anyone suggesting anything that might be different from the norm that they could all be Jesuits. God help anyone that suggests anything different unless they have more than 20K posts and have sworn allegiance to the Good Ol' USof A. Just my opinion and not necessarily those of the any other free thinking inhabitants of planet earth

Always found them really helpful, including some of the top end sponsored team guys. They have some really varied builds on there. Buggies, truggies, full sizes, desert stuff. 3 link, 4 link, 1 link, hydro, no hydro, coils, leafs...........

And talking appreciating different approaches, isn't this a one make vehicle site?????

I do agree with the comment that the "patriotism" can be a bit much.

[bathtub]

It seems to me that people with money to spend have always been able to buy performance enhancing kit or modifications to cover up for their inability to use the kit that they have.

Recently it has been the trend towards portals, presumably because bigger tyres were hard to get so portals is the only way to get over other peoples ruts without the skill to think around the problem.

Portal axles are legal but they have the obvious disadvantage of making the vehicle centre of gravity higher.

The latest "must have to be better than the others" is full hydraulic steering. Hydro steering is great but not road legal, therefore it is my opinion that this is a step too far and should be disallowed.

Should there be a class for vehicles where "anything goes"?

Imagine, if you will, a lightweight, 2wheel drive quad with an ep9 front and rear. Would it win? Would you want to disallow it?

Ummm!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice post .

Spend money on your truck because you cant drive UMMMMMMMMMMMMMM OK whatever

Portals make the vehicle unstable UMMMMMMMMMMMM yer mine fell of the twist of ramp then & is always rolling

So your truck is oHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH so legal then & its got nothing to do with "better than others" its got more to do with just stopping the ****ty LR power steering box braking along with ****ty LR track rods & as for cost my conversion cost about £300 in parts .Ive done about 10 LR boxes in the last year & 4 track rods have snapped 1 on the road.

Yes there should be a class for anything goes .I agree different trucks will do different things & it wont be fair.

Yes bring along a light weight 2 wheel drive At Slindon etc granted he who winches quickest {& knows the site}wins.

But as proven make the section 2 Km or so long & you have to be able to drive them doesnt matter what winch you use it still take longer to winch than drive it

Dont be bitter if some ones got what others cant afford or dont want just let everyone do there own thing PLEASE

[bathtub]

No problem Jez

If you look at kit cars, they do exactly the same build it for the SVA then bolt all the goodies....total farce.....but you are IMHO less likely to get hassle from my Q plate than the 1964 plated coil sprung tax free Hybrid...or the highly modded 90

Its been SVA'd and ALL the mods are listed on the insurance still only cost me £220 fully comp agreed value

Insurance also seems to be getting brushed over a lot !!!!

I challenge anyone out there {if you can can i have there number} to show me a insurance certificate that either shows ;

1. all the modifications to the truck {which mine does becuase its a kit car}but how many 90 drivers have listed there lockers or X-Brake conversion ,new rims ,winch bars etc etc all would make the insurance invalid in a road crash

2. A certificate that says COVERED for race ,rally ,time trials , speed events etc etc beacuse from what i can make out no-one does that is why entry fees are so high to events to cover these parts excluded .

Please let me know if yours does BUT check all the small print & then ring & ask the Insurance company & ask for it in writing Been there done that & got a certificate with more exclusions on it.

So my point is F*** SVA F*** MOT we are all uninsured most of the time

[roguevogue]

If i'd realised how sensitive people are about how much they have spent I would have kept my mouth shut.

If i'd known contravening C&U came under the heading of "Road legal" I would have done it myself.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Nick,

The real problem is that very few coppers actually fully understand the C & U regs ……………. but the guys from the ministry invariably know those regs backwards …..

I guess it will only be a matter of time before a modified off road truck is pulled at a ministry check and has a prohibition slapped on it ……………I got pulled last year ……. I was towing a 2 tonne trailer with the truck cab, so I was of ‘weight’ interest ………… however, the weight and axle loading was fine but I got a friendly earful about the cage lights ………. They contravene both C&U and lighting regs …………… that was until I showed the guy that they are manually switched for off road use only………….

Believe me it happens ………… whilst at these ‘stops’ on official business I have seen many a HGV get a full prohibition notice for C&U contravention ………………..

Ian

[white90]

I have every mod on mine listed on my policy with Adrian S flux

the light on the cage like Ians are switchable so remain legal.

Flux wanted a detailed list of all modifications/receipts etc.

But as Pete says it does not cover events/speed/time trials etc.

[dollythelw]

Mine does Pete, Adrian Flux - just ticked the box and they were fine about it, everything listed - no hassles, only TPF&T but Im not likely to be claiming for a coffee spill on the carpets

Nick - its a debate fella, all opinions are valid.

[Paul Wightman]

Ummm!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UMMMMMMMMMMMMMM OK whatever

UMMMMMMMMMMMM

oHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ****ty ****ty

PLEASE

Somebody touched a nerve?

[FridgeFreezer]

All my mods are listed (Adrian flux B) ), the DVLA know the updated details of my vehicle and VOSA know my wheelarches don't exist (because the MOT man refused to proceed until they told him he had to write me an MOT) but have not turned up yet to black bag me and drag me off to guantanamo bay.

[B reg 90]

Seems to me that we are confusing two issues:

a. Complying with event organisers requirements

b. Being road legal

a. Complying with event organisers requirements - If an event organiser requires you to have a MOT, tax and road insurance for an OFF road event and you comply with this, then surely everything is OK as long as the event insurance is sufficent to cover inadvertant deaths etc. My understanding of this is that it simply ensures some basic standards and shifts liability for scruteenering off the organiser. This is fine by me and it can be relatively cheep if you allways cash in the tax after the event. If your cheeky enough you can also manage 'free' insurance for a weekend simply by taking out a policy on the friday evening and canceling on the monday morning due to a 'change of mind' and get a full refund.

If there is a problem during the 'Off road' event you can't be done under C&U regs by the police if you are off road, hence they are irrellavent. The only outstanding issue would be confirming that the event insurance will cover you from being sued by a spectator, etc, if you inadvertantly rolled your motor onto them......

It does not mean that you have to decide to drive your MOT'd, taxed, insured motor on the road - this is surely a personal decision and nothing to do with event organisers or any one else.

B. Being road legal - It's my understanding that if you take it far enough any modification that changes a motor from the specification of the one submitted for type approval by the manufacturer is a bit iffy. There was a post on here a month or so back where some one stated that they knew of an individual who was about to go to court for having non LR springs (+2") and larger tyres than LR had type approved the vehicle for...... So any mod could be an issue if some one looked into it far enough - all you need to do is get the police interested enough - the bloke who fell asleep on the M62, fell off a bridge and de-railed a train killing a few folk in the process springs to mind.

So what is this discussion about - complying with event organisers requirements, or the legalities of driving modified motors on the road??

Adrian

[dollythelw]

but have not turned up yet to black bag me and drag me off to guantanamo bay.

ahh forgot to tell you they turned up at the lab looking for you..

[honitonhobbit]

All my mods are listed with VOSA as add ons to the SVA so my insurance company (Frizzell) have a list - even the Disco 2 rubber retainers! My policy covers me for marshaling and for non speed trials, road rallies, hill climbs and autotests - I get my deal with Frizell through the CSMA...

[najw]

If there is a problem during the 'Off road' event you can't be done under C&U regs by the police if you are off road, hence they are irrellavent. The only outstanding issue would be confirming that the event insurance will cover you from being sued by a spectator, etc, if you inadvertantly rolled your motor onto them......

Sorry but you are wrong.

'From 1 July 1992 the offences of dangerous, careless or inconsiderate driving of a mechanically propelled vehicle also apply to a public place.

The extension of road traffic law to public places has important consequences for those who take part or organise events involving motor vehicles in fields, parks or other areas where the general public is admitted free of charge or on payment of an entrance fee...

... drivers should be aware that they are liable to prosecution if they drive dangerously or carelessly'

Quote above taken from MSA Blue Book.

So if you were considered for any of these offences you can bet your vehicle would also undergo a thorough examination.

[dollythelw]

When they bought this law out it was highlighted that in theory none of us could race bikes on circuits anymore without fear of prosecution - Fortunately its proved to be either unenforceable or the feds know its flawed legislation

[Lewis]

Sorry but you are wrong.

'From 1 July 1992 the offences of dangerous, careless or inconsiderate driving of a mechanically propelled vehicle also apply to a public place.

The extension of road traffic law to public places has important consequences for those who take part or organise events involving motor vehicles in fields, parks or other areas where the general public is admitted free of charge or on payment of an entrance fee...

... drivers should be aware that they are liable to prosecution if they drive dangerously or carelessly'

Quote above taken from MSA Blue Book.

So if you were considered for any of these offences you can bet your vehicle would also undergo a thorough examination.

I recently had occaision to discuss the matter of the road traffic act and its consequences pertaining to public places, and what constsitutes a public place, with my lawyer.

IIRC his opinion was that in court any capable solicitor will be able to successfully argue such that any site is not a public place, indeed the laws are vague and ambiguous in these matters, and open to interpretabtion by the ruling Judge.

Of course know one wants to reach court

Apparently Billing Aquadrome is not a public place

[FridgeFreezer]

dangerous, careless or inconsiderate driving of a mechanically propelled vehicle also apply to a public place.

Given that most vehicular events carry the proviso "Motorsport Is Dangerous" then they would be stopped from holding such events at any place which is Public?

[bathtub]

Mine does Pete, Adrian Flux - just ticked the box and they were fine about it, everything listed - no hassles, only TPF&T but Im not likely to be claiming for a coffee spill on the carpets

Nick - its a debate fella, all opinions are valid.

Im with adrian Flux .But the dont cover comps etc .Or they wont if you check with them

[bathtub]

All my mods are listed (Adrian flux B) ), the DVLA know the updated details of my vehicle and VOSA know my wheelarches don't exist (because the MOT man refused to proceed until they told him he had to write me an MOT) but have not turned up yet to black bag me and drag me off to guantanamo bay.

Again what about comps-speed trials etc ??????

[FridgeFreezer]

Im with adrian Flux .But the dont cover comps etc .Or they wont if you check with them

They don't cover racing or time trials - basically if a stopwatch is involved you're looking at competition insurance I think. Not a problem for most as a winch challenge is more like orienteering than racing, but I guess at the higher end with timed punches there could be problems.

You may find your home insurance covers you for general liability such as flattening someone. They won't cover the truck, but then how many would expect to claim for rolling their motor in a challenge?

[bathtub]

Seems to me that we are confusing two issues:

a. Complying with event organisers requirements

b. Being road legal

[No im not . As the make them road legal as there are road sections between events etc then they are the same issue

[bathtub]

Somebody touched a nerve?

No not at all just putting in my pennys worth

If i was Mildly miffed off i would of retaliated in defence of people with proper jobs & the drive & ambition to work for themselves but i was too busy writing cheques

[bathtub]

They don't cover racing or time trials - basically if a stopwatch is involved you're looking at competition insurance I think. Not a problem for most as a winch challenge is more like orienteering than racing, but I guess at the higher end with timed punches there could be problems.

You may find your home insurance covers you for general liability such as flattening someone. They won't cover the truck, but then how many would expect to claim for rolling their motor in a challenge?

Dont think there is an event {if the **** hit the fan} that a stop watch isnt involved as we all get a start & finish time !!!!!!

[Paul Wightman]

No im not . As the make them road legal as there are road sections between events etc then they are the same issue

Pete, you've not been attending your elocution lessons have you?

[najw]

When they bought this law out it was highlighted that in theory none of us could race bikes on circuits anymore without fear of prosecution - Fortunately its proved to be either unenforceable or the feds know its flawed legislation

Sorry, didn't get time to fully complete my post as I had to go out.

What I meant to go on and say is that if the event is 'exempted' from this particular piece of legislation by an authorised body then the prosecution couldn't be brought.

The relevance of this is that the MSA (and presumably the ACU for bikes) is a permitted authority and hence an event permit issued by the MSA not only provides third party liability insurance but also protection from prosecution.

Private event organisers may have insurance but are unlikely to also provide this protection and hence, in the event of an incident, the driver could (in theory) be prosecuted.