GBMUD Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 I know, I know, biodiesel does seem to be my favourite subject. I know a lot of folk here buy biodiesel. By biodiesel I mean vegetable oil which has been processed (either by a specialist company or at home) and has had the glycerine removed, NOT just vegetable oil with Nitromores in it. I was wondering what people thought of the quality of the stuff they have bought. I have bought some from a company quite local to me and I know another forum member has too. Both of us have stored some in jerry cans in order to minimise the number of trips. I have found that once the biodiesel has been allowed to sit in the cans for a week or two, something settles out of the fuel and is left in the bottom of the can - this also seems to leave the biodiesel much clearer. Any clues as to what this is? It looks like a dirty emulsion. I have also had some biodiesel from another source where a slightly different process is used and it seems not to do this. The only difference I can put this down to is the way that the biodiesel is washed. In the first case it goes through an ion exchange process and in the other it is water washed in the usual way and then allowed to settle until no water settles in a sample. So, the questions are; what is the stuff that settles out? Does/might it do any harm? Have you had any similar experience? Thanks Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Hey Chris, 3 local places to me sell biodiesel. 2 of them use ion exchangers and leave this suspension and one doesn't. We have been using fuel from a place in Radstock near bath and another in crediton (who sell it for about 93p/litre if buying in bulk). Initial trials in two of our vans suggest that this suspension causes no problems. After 10,000 miles the fuel filters weren't blocked, the engine was burning no oil, and had the same power as could be expected. as long as the company meets BS EN14214 then i don't envisage any problems- it's the guys who can't meet this standard that i worry about. I have read in a couple of places that cloudiness is NOT an indication of poor fuel necessarily, however i have not been able to back that opinion up with any solid science! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Pugwash,can you tell me who sells biodiesel in Radstock please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 http://www.biosulis.co.uk/ they aren't particularly cheap though- better than mineral diesel but not by much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Probably the emulsion settling out will be the high melting point fats/esters - not a lot to worry about, your filter will stop them when solid and the moment you get a bit of heat in your engine bay they will melt again and burn along with the rest of the bio. Avoid putting them in by all means, but don't worry too much. Must admit, I know not a lot about ion exchange systems, however they don't have the best reputation... A water wash will tend to remove the high melting point esters...an ion exchange (especially if done warm) wont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 They want £1.06! cheap at Tesco! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 the place i buy it from (rainbow fuels on Canvey island, Essex) is currently changing 88.9p per litre, i've only just started using it, but it seems really good, and my engine seems to like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHAVED_GORILLA Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Be careful when storing in jerry cans. Always make sure you filter it before or during filling your vehicle. A freind of mine was using 50/50 mix of svo/diesel, useing the jerry can to mix it together. What he didn't realise was that when he poured it into his tank he was also pouring in the paint/coating from the inside of the jerry can!!! Oh what a mess and a nice sticky lump on the end of the fuel sender pickup. Just a quick warning as I am sure nobody would be that stupid as he took the filter off the jerrycan nozzle because it wasnt going in quick enough. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 I thought I'd got a bit of dodgy (thick) tankful from my biodiesel supplier - their pump was running very slow and the truck has been very lumpy since. Discovered yesterday that the lift pump was shot, so it might just be coincidence - we'll see when the new pump is in. I do know that biodiesel + shot lift pump + cold day = immobilised truck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRX Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 I do know that biodiesel + shot lift pump + cold day = immobilised truck... Found that one out aswell New lift pump made the truck loads better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 yep same here, i migght treat the lift pump as a service item in future, and change it every 2 years... its only £40 for a new one.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 I thought I'd got a bit of dodgy (thick) tankful from my biodiesel supplier - their pump was running very slow and the truck has been very lumpy since. Discovered yesterday that the lift pump was shot, so it might just be coincidence - we'll see when the new pump is in.I do know that biodiesel + shot lift pump + cold day = immobilised truck... Interesting that you should mention that Geoff. I had a batch in my 90 in the summer which took forever to come out of the pump due to the pump filter being blocked. The filter on the pump had been changed a couple of times and kept blocking. This made me suspicious and the 90 became almost impossible to start from cold - July cold that is. Once going it was OK and once I put a tankful of dino-diesel in it was OK too. Thanks for the replies everyone else. Jim, which vans do you run the biodiesel in? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I've been reading up about this, in colder months they recomend only RME,new rape seed oil, based fuels.This wil allow the diesel to operate in lower temps.I know they can add stuf to the blend to give it some protection but i'm with the RME solutuon personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Jim, which vans do you run the biodiesel in? 2 T5 transporters with the 2.5tdi 134bhp engine. Don't use bio on every tank though as i like to put a tank of mineral through occasionally just in case. Also starting to run the Lardcruiser on bio too- although as it has a bosch fuel pump i might just starting chucking in 50% SVO as with a 90l tank that can be quite a saving! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Baldwin Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 In our town, a company set up selling Bio Diesel. Big fanfare in local press, endorsement by local greenies, pukka outfit, smart operation, all above board with everything registered to XYZ standard. Before long everyone I knew was using the stuff. And then the problems started..... My dad had a few LR's in his workshop with clogged filters and another local garage had a workshop full of cars all with some problem as a result of using the Bio Diesel. Eventually, the Bio diesel company closed its doors overnight, alledgedly, because of the increasing number of outstanding claims they had for repairs. I know some people who never had a problem with the stuff, and you can maybe blame it on a 'bad batch' or lack of correct information on what will use it without problems, but it does highlight the fact that 'Bio Diesel' is still very much a hit and miss thing and a long way from being a 'fill and forget' solution to cheaper fuel costs. For me, the downsides and risks outweigh the minimal cost savings. Call me a luddite, but I for one wouldn't touch the stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 Good point Kev and really what I was getting at when I first posted. From my own point of view, a little knowledge about the process and chemistry of the operation and a wary attitude to the quality makes the risks acceptable as long as the price is right. I have now got a reliable source of high quality bio-diesel which I trust so I will be using that as and when needed. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I ran a Diesel Veg twin tank system for a year or so in very cold weather the veg was solid in the fuel lines so I had to run on Diesel other than that it seemed to be fine, then the piston melted put down to a faulty injector, but here is the quandary the injectors were brand new only a year before. so when the engine was rebuilt it was put back on to straight diesel and the veg kit sold on. the aggro and cost just doesn't add up for me, forever thinking the engine is going to expire again. So £1.08 diesel it is for me nowadays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 Forgive me if I am wrong though Tony, you were using vegetable oil rather than bio-diesel wern't you? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Sorry yes SVO from Makro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Would buying in ready mixed B20 or B30 solve the storage issues? Or alternatively mixing it as soon as you buy the B100 biodiesel. It's my understanding that B30 or B20 mix is ok for all year use in UK and a number of manufacturers like Citreon/Peugeot etc warranty fleets on B20. When I looked at this a few months back there were suppliers delivering ready mixed B30 or B20, only problem is it's in 1000 litre IBC's. Just looked up latest price and B30 is 86ppl delivered. so for 15K miles p.a. about £500 a year saving on current pump prices. Not sure that's worth the hassle of filling tanks at home etc. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 If I fill my rice burner 4.2tdi Patrol (Landrover trailer puller, thats all folks) with bio-diesel and let it stand for a week, then do say a 200 mile trip, refill with bio-diesel and let stand again for a week or two, which is a very normal practice for me, (because I have a works van a well), then at what point is the rice burner's tank and injectoin system so full of settled ex-suspended matter that its now beyond use? Real possibility, and at what cost for only a few pence per litre less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Interesting that you should mention that Geoff. I had a batch in my 90 in the summer which took forever to come out of the pump due to the pump filter being blocked. The filter on the pump had been changed a couple of times and kept blocking. This made me suspicious and the 90 became almost impossible to start from cold - July cold that is. Once going it was OK and once I put a tankful of dino-diesel in it was OK too. Hmm... New lift pump on tonight (the old one seemed okay - at least it squirted me in the face when I operated the cam lever without checking which way the outlet was pointing... ). It was probably past it's best anyway. Limped down to the nearest filling station and topped up with finest matured prehistoric plankton (about 20l) - it's now better, but no-where near properly drivable. Struggles to top 30mph and dies right back if I try to give it much welly. Fuel filter was new on monday the day before this started, so is probably okay, but I guess changing it for the spare is the next thing. After that I guess it's lifting the guage sender out the tank and seeing if anything's cacked up in there, and if all else fails siphon the tank Any other suggestions? You were asking what our experiences of biodiesel quality were, weren't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 a litre or two of unleaded straight in the tank Geoff that is what I was adding to the SVO when it was solidifying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 a litre or two of unleaded straight in the tank Geoffthat is what I was adding to the SVO when it was solidifying It was already 5% unleaded... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 o dear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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