TD5 90 - First Land Rover!

[landroversforever]

Firstly i will say that i have searched and i havent been able to find the answers that i'm looking for. I appologise if i have missed it! so here goes...

My driving test is approaching soon, and after that i will be buying a 90 . Mom and Dad have said they will pay towards it, so the cost isnt too much for me!

I am looking at the '99 to '01 era TD5 90's, to sort of future-proof my purchase. The thinking being that I will keep the vehicle long term(forever ).

The Insurance will be quite expensive, the cheapest i can find would be ~£1400 fully comp with Dad the main driver (100% no claims), and me as a named driver; this is with the RAC. My question is, where is going to insure me, with mods included?? what are the options? how could i get a discount (other than getting older )

What are the things i should look for when buying? this is what i can think of so far:

-Front Bulkhead, top corners and footwells

-Rear X-member, make sure its solid & not rotten

-Bottom of the doors, bubbling

-Rear door wheel carrier, splitting of door frame

-Tyres, uneven wear on them

-General Chassis 'solidness' (ringing sound to 'look' for?)

What should i look for regards to Engine/Gbox/Tcase?? how would i be able to check that diff lock works?

On a side note, Yellow is my favourite colour, any ideas as to how much a FULL respray in AA yellow would cost? ~£1000?

Lastly, Thanks to EVERYONE that replies, it is all greatfully recieved

PS. the quoted price shocked me as to how cheap it is!! i was expecting a far higher price!

[Gromit]

What are the things i should look for when buying?

Start with this.

It's aimed at 200tdi vintage, but most of it applies.

how would i be able to check that diff lock works?

Hand brake on, main box in neutral.

Jack up one front wheel. With difflock out, the raised wheel should turn, with difflock in, the raised wheel should not turn, other than allowing for any play that might be in the transmission.

[GBMUD]

You will not be insured if your Dad is the main driver on the insurance and you are the main driver in reality. It may even come under the heading of 'Fraud'.

If your Dad has 100% no claims then the premium will be reduced by 100%. More likely he will be given 60% or 65%.

And lastly, with the greatest of respect to you and your undoubted 17 YO driving ability, OMHO your dad is a very brave (some might even suggest foolish) man to allow you loose with his insurance bonus!

Chris

[JST]

Chris - bad day at the office!

dont dampen the guys enthusiasm! you are of course right though.

ref insurance its better to pay more and be the proper driver of it, plus you will then get your own NCB

to keep the price down go for a basic vehicle ie hardtop/pickup 90 with limited mile policy, try Third part F&T only?

drive it and dont modify it will also keep the price down.

buy a tdi or TD they are a lower group with some companies.

NFU have always been good to me in the past (including mods) but some offices can be picky and they dont necessary cater for the younger driver.

My '99 reg td5 is just starting to bubble at the bottom of the doors but chassis etc and all the other checks are as you would expect.

Put the grand respray money towards your own insurance

Check FSH, oil in ECU issues, see if there is any evidence of the oil pump bolt being checked/ redone

my advice go for a low mileage one and pay the extra for it, stay clear of modified ones for the insurance side of things.

[discojmz]

wow! how the other half live

my first car was a 1.3litre H reg ford escort and cost me 300 quid

insured in my own name it cost *ouch* to insure

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

You will not be insured if your Dad is the main driver on the insurance and you are the main driver in reality. It may even come under the heading of 'Fraud'.

If your Dad has 100% no claims then the premium will be reduced by 100%. More likely he will be given 60% or 65%.

And lastly, with the greatest of respect to you and your undoubted 17 YO driving ability, OMHO your dad is a very brave (some might even suggest for the man to allow you loose with his insurance bonus!

Chris

A lot of insurance companies have twigged onto this fiddle ...................... thats why the young fella's premium is £1400 WITH the NCB ..............

I don't want to p!ss in his cornflakes but I guess it may be better for him first get an older eurobox for the first 12 months ............. then after 12 moths claims free motoring the insurance will be a little (not a lot) cheaper in his own right.

The Dad cannot possibly have 100% NCB ........... if he did then his insurance would be free !!!! .......... I would guess he has 5 to 7 years claim free motoring which qualifies for a 65% or 70% NCB discount, dependent upon which company it is.

But don't be fooled by NCB .............thats why they ask you all these questions up front.......... once they know you have NCB then the policy is loaded at the frontend before your discount is applied !

Three years ago I got a bit annoyed with an insurance company, so I got a quote by saying that I had no NCB, but had been driving for 30 years on company cars, but the company as a policy is not willing to substantiate it .................. once they quoted with no introductory discount, I then called them back two days later, saying that I was now able to substantiate full NCB ............. there quote minus my NCB was £48 ...............

The outcome was that they refused to insure me ........... so I threated them with the ombudsman and a ton of bad press and also rang the company general manager to 'air' my grievance ................... my insurance for that year was £48 fully comp with protected NCB, £150 excess, and free breakdown cover............. on a 2004 2.8Ltd Cherokee.

Ian

[BogMonster]

Three years ago I got a bit annoyed with an insurance company, so I got a quote by saying that I had no NCB, but had been driving for 30 years on company cars, but the company as a policy is not willing to substantiate it .................. once they quoted with no introductory discount, I then called them back two days later, saying that I was now able to substantiate full NCB ............. there quote minus my NCB was £48 ...............

The outcome was that they refused to insure me ........... so I threated them with the ombudsman and a ton of bad press and also rang the company general manager to 'air' my grievance ................... my insurance for that year was £48 fully comp with protected NCB, £150 excess, and free breakdown cover............. on a 2004 2.8Ltd Cherokee.

It isn't often that you beat the system but that is definitely 1:0 to Ian

[landroversforever]

You will not be insured if your Dad is the main driver on the insurance and you are the main driver in reality. It may even come under the heading of 'Fraud'.

If your Dad has 100% no claims then the premium will be reduced by 100%. More likely he will be given 60% or 65%.

And lastly, with the greatest of respect to you and your undoubted 17 YO driving ability, OMHO your dad is a very brave (some might even suggest foolish) man to allow you loose with his insurance bonus!

Chris

By 100% i meant that he hasnt ever claimed, and hes been driving since...well centurys .

There isnt any way of telling who drives it more is there??

Chris - bad day at the office!

dont dampen the guys enthusiasm! you are of course right though.

ref insurance its better to pay more and be the proper driver of it, plus you will then get your own NCB

to keep the price down go for a basic vehicle ie hardtop/pickup 90 with limited mile policy, try Third part F&T only?

drive it and dont modify it will also keep the price down.

buy a tdi or TD they are a lower group with some companies.

NFU have always been good to me in the past (including mods) but some offices can be picky and they dont necessary cater for the younger driver.

My '99 reg td5 is just starting to bubble at the bottom of the doors but chassis etc and all the other checks are as you would expect.

Put the grand respray money towards your own insurance

Check FSH, oil in ECU issues, see if there is any evidence of the oil pump bolt being checked/ redone

my advice go for a low mileage one and pay the extra for it, stay clear of modified ones for the insurance side of things.

My thoughts as far as TD5 over the earlier ones was rot, and ones that will generally be in better condition?

Respray was only a thought for the future not something to do straight away

''oil pump bolt being checked/ redone'' I have no idea where it would be

wow! how the other half live

my first car was a 1.3litre H reg ford escort and cost me 300 quid

insured in my own name it cost *ouch* to insure

The thoughts are, If i drove the 206 as i am now, mom and dad would need to get annother small car for dad to go to work in. Why then not put the money along with my own hard earned towards a land rover.

A lot of insurance companies have twigged onto this fiddle ...................... thats why the young fella's premium is £1400 WITH the NCB ..............

I don't want to p!ss in his cornflakes but I guess it may be better for him first get an older eurobox for the first 12 months ............. then after 12 moths claims free motoring the insurance will be a little (not a lot) cheaper in his own right.

The Dad cannot possibly have 100% NCB ........... if he did then his insurance would be free !!!! .......... I would guess he has 5 to 7 years claim free motoring which qualifies for a 65% or 70% NCB discount, dependent upon which company it is.

But don't be fooled by NCB .............thats why they ask you all these questions up front.......... once they know you have NCB then the policy is loaded at the frontend before your discount is applied !

Three years ago I got a bit annoyed with an insurance company, so I got a quote by saying that I had no NCB, but had been driving for 30 years on company cars, but the company as a policy is not willing to substantiate it .................. once they quoted with no introductory discount, I then called them back two days later, saying that I was now able to substantiate full NCB ............. there quote minus my NCB was £48 ...............

The outcome was that they refused to insure me ........... so I threated them with the ombudsman and a ton of bad press and also rang the company general manager to 'air' my grievance ................... my insurance for that year was £48 fully comp with protected NCB, £150 excess, and free breakdown cover............. on a 2004 2.8Ltd Cherokee.

Ian

Please not a eurobox!!! i dont want to be like all the others at 6th Form .

As for Basic, I am wanting a Hard-top or a Pick-up anyway (HT prefered) over a station wagon. TPFT I would be happy with, but knowing mom she'd rather it be fully comp(no idea why, just springs to mind ).

[Gromit]

I'm not too familiar with TD5s, but have a look around the tech archives, or use the search on the forum.

There was a problem with the bolt holding the oil pump sprocket on, working loose, with obvious consequences.

I appreciate that you don't want a eurobox - who does.

One thing, I'm in Ireland, and here many insurers will not insure and 18YO on anything over 2 litres. Have you checked if the same applies to you?

I agree with the other posts about you being a named driver and actually using the vehicle. If there's a claim, the insurers will do everything to find a way out of paying, and if they find the named driver is the principle driver..................

It is best to start accruing your own NCB on your own policy. It hurts initially, but it's probably for the best.

[Scotian]

I dont see how the insurance company could possibily find out that he wasnt the main driver. Same as the question of where the car is normally kept. They cant find out who normally drives and where its normally kept in retrospect and unless it was involved in some stupidly huge hollywood style crime no insurance company or police force is going to waste resorces trying to find out somthing that is almost impossible to prove.

For years I have had to insure my car at my mothers address for various reasons and once had to make a claim after somone hit me and denied it was their fault for a year till it was finally cleared up..

Of course it is techically wrong to declair these falseifications but cmon.. its so far fetched that they could ever know differently that he may as well just do it and keep his mouth shut.

Talking of future proof thought mate. if you really want to be future proof get a 200/300 tdi becuase one day it might not be so easy to find a computer to plug into to fix a stupid TD5.. Also its less on insurance in some cases as someone already said and it uses less fuel for only a tiny less performance (which you can tweak quietly ) Dont worry about rot. as long as you buy carefully you can get an imaculate 300tdi and if you are planning to keep it forever anyway you are going to have to replace certain parts some time so why not 5 years sooner.. Rear cross members cost about 80 pounds and are not that hard to fit. You will get plently of people on here offering to help you with the welding for free.

If I was your age again instead of buying the **** box Metro then Nova I had as my first cars I would get what I have now. A pretty scruffy 1985 90 with a petrol engine... then make it a project getting it how you want it. now I have a (in my opinion) pretty smart looking truck my any standards witha 200Tdi engine which is great)

[landroversforever]

As for 300Tdi Vs. TD5, a good 300 is the same price as a good early TD5...

well as far as i can see anyway

[GBMUD]

I dont see how the insurance company could possibily find out that he wasnt the main driver. Same as the question of where the car is normally kept. They cant find out who normally drives and where its normally kept in retrospect and unless it was involved in some stupidly huge hollywood style crime no insurance company or police force is going to waste resorces trying to find out somthing that is almost impossible to prove.

For years I have had to insure my car at my mothers address for various reasons and once had to make a claim after somone hit me and denied it was their fault for a year till it was finally cleared up..

Of course it is techically wrong to declair these falseifications but cmon.. its so far fetched that they could ever know differently that he may as well just do it and keep his mouth shut.

Still fraudulent. ...but FWIW, I agree with you.

Chris

[landroversforever]

As to where it would normally be kept. Drive would be the answer 50% of the time, with it being parked in our cul-de-sac the other 50%. Then the point would be to go for 'stored on drive' they could never proove it either way.

I know i'm only 17, but i see there being no-way what so ever that it could be proved whos drives the vehicle most often.

[Scotian]

The only way they would find out come claim time is if one of the guys working for the claims department did a quick google on your name and it turned up in this forum post. So maybe we should change the subject

[landroversforever]

ahh but only my first name is on here

[Scotian]

sshhhhh

[landroversforever]

So what are the Cons of TD5 ownership??

[Scotian]

Bad fuel consumption

Low quality parts compared to older landrovers

Silly electrics that fail INSIDE the rocker cover

Oil leaking through said silly electric and getting all the way down the wires into the ECU area

Higher insurance cost

Reqirement to go to a main dealer in order to get engine managemnet played with instead of just a mechanic

And most importantly, all the TDI lot will say "Told you so!" when it messes up..

You will probably get towed to saftey in Africa by a series 3 or TDI when the ECU wont let you drive anymore.

I still think you should do what I did and get an older defender with a carp engine. lower insurance... and make a project out of it.. Safe the money you would have spent on a TD5 for the engine transplan in a years time, spend some of the money on repairs and upgrades and I think you will have a load more fun and a much nicer landrover for your money.

[Top90]

Wow, you don't like Td5s do you?

The oil pump bolt problem is not a big issue, in the same way that the 300 TDi timing belt alignment is not an issue anymore. All these vehicles are old enough now that if they were going to blow up they would have done so already unless it has seriously low milage.

Oil in the wiring loom is easy enough to stop and has been talked about on this forum.

On the 300TDis and Td5s I've had there has been hardly any difference to fuel economy. With a Td5 you just get a bit more power as the engine is more efficient due to the electronics. In fact my 110 Td5 became the most economical landrover I've ever had as a mild tweak on the ECU gave an extra 2mpg.

I also took a Td5 to Africa (Are you planning on doing that often?) and it was fine. After a couple of weeks dust on the throttle sensor caused it to stop giving a reading but a quick check in the workshop manual, blowing it clean and restarting the engine sorted it out.

If it's a first car I would still be tempted to go TDi though, simply because they are slower and cheaper to insure. plus easier to fix yourself. Some Td5 parts are a bit pricey. If cost is not so important get a later spec (around 02 plate) Td5. There were several changes made.

The bad point of a TDi engine (or older one) is that it is attached to an older car that will probably have had more use, so logic suggests that you need to do a bit more DIY than on a newer one. Between two Td5s I did 70,000 miles including the Africa trip and one needed a clutch cylinder and had it's brake pads changed. Thats it. By comparison the 300TDis I had were older and I was often changing minor parts or fixing little niggles... but that's all part of the fun of Land Rover ownership.

That's my balanced view. If price is not a major issue - later Td5, otherwise TDi.

Richard

[landroversforever]

Wow, you don't like Td5s do you?

The oil pump bolt problem is not a big issue, in the same way that the 300 TDi timing belt alignment is not an issue anymore. All these vehicles are old enough now that if they were going to blow up they would have done so already unless it has seriously low milage.

Oil in the wiring loom is easy enough to stop and has been talked about on this forum.

On the 300TDis and Td5s I've had there has been hardly any difference to fuel economy. With a Td5 you just get a bit more power as the engine is more efficient due to the electronics. In fact my 110 Td5 became the most economical landrover I've ever had as a mild tweak on the ECU gave an extra 2mpg.

I also took a Td5 to Africa (Are you planning on doing that often?) and it was fine. After a couple of weeks dust on the throttle sensor caused it to stop giving a reading but a quick check in the workshop manual, blowing it clean and restarting the engine sorted it out.

If it's a first car I would still be tempted to go TDi though, simply because they are slower and cheaper to insure. plus easier to fix yourself. Some Td5 parts are a bit pricey. If cost is not so important get a later spec (around 02 plate) Td5. There were several changes made.

The bad point of a TDi engine (or older one) is that it is attached to an older car that will probably have had more use, so logic suggests that you need to do a bit more DIY than on a newer one. Between two Td5s I did 70,000 miles including the Africa trip and one needed a clutch cylinder and had it's brake pads changed. Thats it. By comparison the 300TDis I had were older and I was often changing minor parts or fixing little niggles... but that's all part of the fun of Land Rover ownership.

That's my balanced view. If price is not a major issue - later Td5, otherwise TDi.

Richard

For the forseeable future i will just be within the UK!

My thoughts regarding maintenance were, i only have theoretical knowlege so it would end up going into a garage any way.

The bad point of a TDi engine (or older one) is that it is attached to an older car that will probably have had more use, so logic suggests that you need to do a bit more DIY than on a newer one. Between two Td5s I did 70,000 miles including the Africa trip and one needed a clutch cylinder and had it's brake pads changed. Thats it. By comparison the 300TDis I had were older and I was often changing minor parts or fixing little niggles... but that's all part of the fun of Land Rover ownership.

My point exactly thinking about condition of chassis etc. the main thing pushing me TD5

[Night Train]

My first car was an 1100cc Ford Escort Mk1, second was a Land Rover S3 Safari, third an MGB GT then things just got out of control!

As has been said, get your own insurance sorted out if you can. Otherwise companies like Direct Line will let you build your own NCB a a named driver on your Dad's insurance if he was with them. I would be concerned about being caught out driving as the main driver when you are not insured as such. It isn't just repairs to your own vehicle but claims made by the third party. If you bumped me and your insurance refused to cover you then I would be more then a little miffed. You might get away with insuring the 206 as your car and letting your Dad have the Landie fo rthe first year or so. You could then drive it sometimes How sometimes that might be is debatable but if anything went wrong you could prove to your insurance that you have a 206 of your own and so couldn't possibly be driving a Landie all the time. I drove my Dad's 3.0l Mk1 Capri that way.

[Top90]

If you will pay for repairs engine is not the most important thing then, as you say it comes down to condition.

Just get the best you can without stretching the budget as there will always be a few bits you want to do, or modifications you would like to make.

BUT have a test drive of several different ones first so you don't get one that drives like a dog and think it's normal.

I have seen a dealer selling really bad ones, but with the excuse that they are utility vehicles so it's normal.

[landroversforever]

My first car was an 1100cc Ford Escort Mk1, second was a Land Rover S3 Safari, third an MGB GT then things just got out of control!

As has been said, get your own insurance sorted out if you can. Otherwise companies like Direct Line will let you build your own NCB a a named driver on your Dad's insurance if he was with them. I would be concerned about being caught out driving as the main driver when you are not insured as such. It isn't just repairs to your own vehicle but claims made by the third party. If you bumped me and your insurance refused to cover you then I would be more then a little miffed. You might get away with insuring the 206 as your car and letting your Dad have the Landie fo rthe first year or so. You could then drive it sometimes How sometimes that might be is debatable but if anything went wrong you could prove to your insurance that you have a 206 of your own and so couldn't possibly be driving a Landie all the time. I drove my Dad's 3.0l Mk1 Capri that way.

surely they could not refuse to pay out as you are within an agreement, in writing? otherwise are you not insured ever as a named driver?

That would be the way to do it, but as it is mom and dad are paying for the 206 insurance, and they would be paying the 90 insurance ( or most of it) dont think they would want/be able to pay for both.

If you will pay for repairs engine is not the most important thing then, as you say it comes down to condition.

Just get the best you can without stretching the budget as there will always be a few bits you want to do, or modifications you would like to make.

BUT have a test drive of several different ones first so you don't get one that drives like a dog and think it's normal.

I have seen a dealer selling really bad ones, but with the excuse that they are utility vehicles so it's normal.

Would anyone out there (not to far) with some private land be able to let me see what 'normal' feels like?

[Night Train]

Insurance can be a sod to work with. If they think you are the main driver and not just the named driver who isn't the main person driving then they might just be able to find reason to not pay or at least be unhelpful.

I am insured to drive other vehicles but when I drove my Dad's Disco and it got hit by a bus his insuarance said 'Thanks for letting us know. As you are not a named driver tell us when you have it all sorted out.'. My insurance said 'Thanks for letting us know. As it isn't the vehicle we insure let us know when you have it all sorted out.' I had no support, no legal assistance and no comebacks. I was fully covered and it was the bus driver's fault and I still had to sort it all myself including being responsible for for the legal costs until I could claim it back off the bus company. The bus company wanted to talk to my insurance but they didn't want to play ball until it was sorted out.

Just being cynical and not wanting you to get caught out.

[Projectblue]

Firstly i will say that i have searched and i havent been able to find the answers that i'm looking for. I appologise if i have missed it! so here goes...

My driving test is approaching soon, and after that i will be buying a 90 . Mom and Dad have said they will pay towards it, so the cost isnt too much for me!

I am looking at the '99 to '01 era TD5 90's, to sort of future-proof my purchase. The thinking being that I will keep the vehicle long term(forever ).

The Insurance will be quite expensive, the cheapest i can find would be ~£1400 fully comp with Dad the main driver (100% no claims), and me as a named driver; this is with the RAC. My question is, where is going to insure me, with mods included?? what are the options? how could i get a discount (other than getting older )

What are the things i should look for when buying? this is what i can think of so far:

-Front Bulkhead, top corners and footwells

-Rear X-member, make sure its solid & not rotten

-Bottom of the doors, bubbling

-Rear door wheel carrier, splitting of door frame

-Tyres, uneven wear on them

-General Chassis 'solidness' (ringing sound to 'look' for?)

What should i look for regards to Engine/Gbox/Tcase?? how would i be able to check that diff lock works?

On a side note, Yellow is my favourite colour, any ideas as to how much a FULL respray in AA yellow would cost? ~£1000?

Lastly, Thanks to EVERYONE that replies, it is all greatfully recieved

PS. the quoted price shocked me as to how cheap it is!! i was expecting a far higher price!

Hi Ross,

At this stage I would recommend starting with a good 200 or 300tdi. This will be cheaper to insure as many insurance companies will give you discount on your landrover being 10 yrs old. NFU and Sureterm to name but two. Expect to pay between £5k-£8k which is means you have the balance from your purchase to put to the insurance.

Don't be tempted down the dads policy route as insurance companies love to not pay if they smell anything fishy. If you get refused insurance because of such a trick you will be knackered as you may find it impossible to get insurance anywhere.

Pay on condition of the vehicle and check all the things you mentioned, chassis rust is a possibility at that age, but not a given.

Yellow was not a common colour other than if done for a PLC works truck. But a tin of paint and a roller later......