Jen Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Hello all, I'm ordering a new chassis for George this week, bearing in mind there's going to be some alterations/strengthining needed in certain areas I'd decided on a bare metal chassis with a view to potential galvanising after alterations had been made. However, a bit of research has shown I could get my bare metal chassis for £550 (+vat) but I could get the same chassis galv'd for £559 (+vat) and it's a closer location to pick up from. This is where I get stuck - am I ok for welding on a galv chassis assuming I rub the top coat back in a good area surrounding the weld? Does the galv process affect the metal in any other way to make it difficult/unadvisable to weld? The chassis will be well protected and painted anyway, so I'm not too fussed about the loosing galv protection on sections of the chassis, it just seemed to make sense to get a glav one for the difference in price and the fact the interior/98% of the chassis will be still well protected despite me removing some of the coating. Thanks, Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Be aware of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fume_fever Zinc Oxide is NOT very nice! If you do weld to a galved part, clean it up VERY VERY well, and the area around it, wear a GOOD mask, as you won't be able to clean the inside of the chassis, where it will (well should if you are getting the penetration!) also burn off. Good ventilation as well of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 take care Jen... yes you can grind the galv off and weld, if you see nice white fluffy carp then A, dont touch it - brush it off, B grind more, C join the fun club that enjoys a dose of "welders flu", Phosgene poisoning ranges in its effects from a killer headache to full on shakes and nasty flu for anywhere from a few hours to a few days.. its not yummy and not particularly recommended. Make sure (IF you got down that road) you dont have your head between the weld and wherever the nasty pooh smoke is heading, make sure you are vented to clean air (airflow mask if possible (just dont have anyone around thats going to fart into the intake..) and if possible have an monkey assistant watching whats going on. it wont kill you but you will know its hit you. If you can stretch to it get a bare steel chassis, mod it, then send it off to be galv'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 ha - faster fingers Bowie69! I stand corrected - it can kill if you try really really hard and have an odd name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 i have had fume fever, bad! all i can say is i have invested in an extractor since! aviod welding galv at all costs! or if you do get the flap disk on it first and then as said above, do it again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 A tough one, depends how much extra work there's going to be - I suspect lots, so I would say it'd be far more pleasant (and give a better finish) to buy the bare one, mod it and then galv it. Otherwise you're into the PITA of grinding back through galv for a reasonable distance around every weld you want to do, assuming you can get the grinder in there, and welding it, then potentially having to grind back & re-weld a bit if you've got galv in the weld. Everywhere you grind off & weld to is going to be tough to re-protect as well as the rest of the chassis, if you weld to the outside you'll be burning the galv off the inside of the rail and that'll be rather tricky to reinstate, hence why I'd say get it all galved when it's done. Or gold passivated B) And, as has been said, the white stuff is not good for inhaling. You can come round here and play welding on Zintec if you want to experience the joys of welding on/near galv for yourself? I do have a vented Speedglas 9002X mask you can borrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Well, I certainly agree with whats been said about cautions while welding on galv - grind it right back and vent it / make a draft / remote air supply. But I'm going to say just get the galvy one, grind back where necessary and paint over nicely/thoroughly afterwards. As a percentage the areas you unprotect will be pretty small, and a decent coat of the right paints will do fine. Cheapest, easiest, quickest. But hell, in a perfect world the bare metal and post-fiddling galv is the best option. John, do you have an adflow unit? can you snap some detailed pics for me, I'm trying to make meself a pikey version out of string, chewing gum and old plastic bags. Ta Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigblue110 Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 a bit off topic but what does galv do to a weld i have been know to weld direct, without any grinding just cranked up the juice a notch t make sure its burnt away. which i know isnt the way to do it, but needs must sometimes. never noticed any poor effects/quality of weld hasnt been lost, no perousity(how ever you spell it) ??? can vouch for all of the above bar death, anything from small headaches, BIG headaches, to a week off feeling as rough as you like with full blown flu in the middle of summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobotMan Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Anyone tried Zinga? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnover4x4 Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Be very cautous welding galv. As stated above remove as much as needed to weld to. The galv contains arsnic which is obviously lethal in a high enough dose. Had arsonic poisoning welding galv a few times in well ventilated area. Use an extractor if poss. Symtoms from contamination are very sore throat at the least & keeling over at the worst. Sore throat lasts afew days.Dont know if any fatalies have ocurred from process tho. Ive used galvafroid for paint exposed metal areas that have been galved. In honesty not the best product ive used as is quite easy to scratch of. Goog resistance to corrosion in non abrased areas but no better than hammerite. Ive heard that that Zinga stuff is excellent. Makes sure you follow application timings as seemed to make a difference to the hardness if you dont. Ade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 Wow, thanks for all the responses just dont have anyone around thats going to fart into the intake.. Mm. Well that discounts practically all my 'friends' assuming you can get the grinder in there *that* is a good point and one I hadn't thought of. Considering I've spent more time with my grinder than Dan recently I was happy enough with my 'grinder fu' to be confident of getting a good result... but hadn't thought of those tricky corners. you'll be burning the galv off the inside of the rail and that'll be rather tricky to reinstate, hence why I'd say get it all galved when it's done. That was a concern, but I figured I'd flood it in a waxoil frenzy (avoiding moo cat). I had heard of fume problems before, so thanks to everyone for confirming. I think a phonecall is in order, if the closer supplier can get me a bare metal then it's a no brainer. If not, I may just have to drive a bit further to pick one up directly - there's bound to be some good mountain bike tracks up there ... any excuse B) Thanks, Ever-Cautious-Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mortus Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 the gas that comes off when you weld on galv is the same gas that the germans used to kill jews. mustard gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 John, do you have an adflow unit? can you snap some detailed pics for me, I'm trying to make meself a pikey version out of string, chewing gum and old plastic bags. Al - it's a Speedglas 9002X mask with some added gubbins - I only actually bought it on eBay for the lens after mine met with an accident so the mask part is sitting in its box, mainly because the fabric hood inside would get annoying for normal work. You can have a borrow of it if you like? Jen - OK you can get a galv chassis for £9 extra, but have you priced up getting a bare one galved locally? If it's only £50 or so I'd say that's got to be easier, and you can chuck a load of other bits in the tank at the same time for not much extra - bulkhead springs to mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 the gas that comes off when you weld on galv is the same gas that the germans used to kill jews.mustard gas. waaaaaaaaaaay off dopic but that gas was Cyanide i belive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 the gas that comes off when you weld on galv is the same gas that the germans used to kill jews. No, that was carbon monoxide, or hydrogen cyanide. Mustard gas is different, and not very good at eliminating people quickly. Anyway! John - yes I'd love a peek please! Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddballrovers Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Hi Jen. If I was you I would go for a non galva, based on the following, thoughts, since it is ( I guess) a play thing how much salt is it going to see? how long time are you going to keep it in this state before you start to modify it? If you when all welding is finished you rub it down with a wire brush and give it two layers off good rust proof and then at least two layers off topcoat and the when you have finished putting it all together you treat it with something like wax oil or any other thing like that and you then each year, go over it with the under seal thing whatever you chose it will be fine for many years and you will have a chassis that you always can do repairs/mods to without having to worry about fumes as so. I would not like to be in the middle off nowhere and having to do a fast weld job and then have to spend time worrying about zinc fumes. If however it is a daily driver doing a lot off mileage I would go for the galva thing. When we have finished The Kitten we are moving on to a series RR based crew cap thing to haul it to the events and that is off course going galva. Just my few words, the Right thing at the right place.... Regards Ole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Hi Jen, Another vote for non galv, it will just be a soooo much easier and nicer experience doing all the mods, part of my work is welding/fab and believe me I don't relish having to do anything thats galvanised.....even with extensive grinding it's no fun. Then as Fridge says after you have finished get it done with all the other bits you want done - bulkhead/ winch bumper, light guards etc , then the jobs a good'un , and no regrets ..it isn't expensive and worth doing right Enjoy the build Cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torrentace Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Hi Jen,Another vote for non galv, it will just be a soooo much easier and nicer experience doing all the mods, part of my work is welding/fab and believe me I don't relish having to do anything thats galvanised.....even with extensive grinding it's no fun. Then as Fridge says after you have finished get it done with all the other bits you want done - bulkhead/ winch bumper, light guards etc , then the jobs a good'un , and no regrets ..it isn't expensive and worth doing right Enjoy the build Cheers Steveb Just get the galv chassis, 99% of it will be protected perfectly, the small area you will weld will be insignificant, just treat it well after, waxoil etc etc, as for the fumes, yes they are not very clean but having done lots of galv welding years ago when people didn't realise the health implications i have to say I am still very well indeed. To be honest, a half hour welding will do all you engine / gearbox mounts with ease, no health probs there, I've done 30 yrs plus, and still going , you choose ( just chooose galv for the rest of the chassis sake ! ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torrentace Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Just get the galv chassis, 99% of it will be protected perfectly, the small area you will weld will be insignificant, just treat it well after, waxoil etc etc, as for the fumes, yes they are not very clean but having done lots of galv welding years ago when people didn't realise the health implications i have to say I am still very well indeed. To be honest, a half hour welding will do all you engine / gearbox mounts with ease, no health probs there, I've done 30 yrs plus, and still going , you choose ( just chooose galv for the rest of the chassis sake ! ). Oh !!!! and to weld the galv just grind back the plated surface and burn it well in, if you can weld you have no issues, if not then get practising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimfoo Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I've welded galvi many a time, and only on a few occasions have felt anything at all, which wasn't much. I was just using a regular welding mask as well. However, I did weld in a ventilated area, and if the fumes came towards me, I held my breath, stopped welding and went to where there was clear air. I did also grind where I was welding. There are zinc or zinc alloy bars you can get, heat the CLEAN metal up, and melt it on. I used a wire brush to help spread it around. It works very well. I actually got mine from the galvanizer as I had to weld up some holes afterwards that they wanted me to drill before they dipped the parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Well, thanks for all the comments (and Hi Jimfoo! Hope all's well in Colorado B) ). The Chassis has been ordered, I'll be picking up a standard bare metal 88" Chassis on the 7th April. The risks were enough to worry me (paranoid about any safety stuff) and the bare metal will be easier for the changes I need to make, which will be more than engine/gearbox mounts. There's a good galv place about 15 minutes from me that did a 110 chassis for abut £200 IIRC, so I'll look to get the chassis and bulkhead done together when the changes have been made. This will hopefully make for the best of both worlds B) ...the fact that there's some excellent mountain biking at High Peak had nothing to do with my inclination to drive to the further supplier to pick up the bare metal one... honest. Will be honing my welding Fu at every opportunity until the Chassis arrives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimfoo Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Going great here. Weather is warming up, 24C in Denver yesterday. I'm up to 30.7 MPG as my engine starts breaking in. Keep us updated on your project. Maybe you can get all the trim galvanized as well. I know my local place has a minimum charge, then it's by weight from there, so small bits don't add to hardly anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 Going great here. Weather is warming up, 24C in Denver yesterday. I'm up to 30.7 MPG as my engine starts breaking in. Keep us updated on your project. Maybe you can get all the trim galvanized as well. I know my local place has a minimum charge, then it's by weight from there, so small bits don't add to hardly anything. Excellent news on the engine, sounds like it's running pretty nicely then. Things are pretty much the weather-opposite over here, we were camping in Wales at the weekend in the snow B) It was bloody freezing! Great idea about the trim, ours runs the same way here I'll probably see how much I can collect and chuck as much in with it as possible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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