Rear Bench Seat

[joe1970]

Anyone know what the laws/regulations are (uk) regarding fitting a rear bench seat in a land rover?

[crazyfarmerboy]

hello at the moment you can fit the bench but if your car is newer than 1987 you have to have seat belts fitted. however the official seat belt bar is very expensive. i just bought some belts and bolted them through the bench on mine as it was too expensive to fit the official bars. No one will notice as not many people know the rules. thank

[Guest diesel_jim]

No one will notice as not many people know the rules. thank

until you have a crash, and the rear passengers, complete with bench seat, smack you on the back of the head.

[Madcowz]

I have installed one bench in the back of mine (still need to do the other) with all the correct bars, spacers, bolts and whatnot. Yes it is a faff, yes it is pricey, but it is my kids that are mostly going to use it and they are worth every penny (although somedays I think otherwise).

Once I have the time and fit the 2nd bench, I will be doing an install guide with loads of pictures as most of the bits are underneather the car and the belt bar is just a small part of the whole install.

mad

[joe1970]

If I was stopped by the police with someone sitting in the back and it had a seat belt fitted but not a seat bar would I be ok?

[Guest diesel_jim]

If I was stopped by the police with someone sitting in the back and it had a seat belt fitted but not a seat bar would I be ok?

If the copper knew his beans and checked under the wheelarch (which isn't a difficult thing to do on a LR) then he may order you to have an MoT test, and they may well fail it on non correct seatbelt mounts.

It's a bit like comparing if you were blind drunk and drive home, but didn't get stopped, would you be OK?

yes, you'd get away with it... but if you did have an accident, you'd be in deep brown smelly stuff.

[joe1970]

If the copper knew his beans and checked under the wheelarch (which isn't a difficult thing to do on a LR) then he may order you to have an MoT test, and they may well fail it on non correct seatbelt mounts.

It's a bit like comparing if you were blind drunk and drive home, but didn't get stopped, would you be OK?

yes, you'd get away with it... but if you did have an accident, you'd be in deep brown smelly stuff.

Yes your right Jim.

Has anyone got any links for the correct seat belt fittings?

[western]

my '89 110 came as a 12 seater with the 3 man bench seats each side in the rear, no seat belts were fitted by LR during build & it never failed a MOT due to not having them, as they weren't fitted from new then the belts aren't required, BUT if you fit seatbelts Please use decent sized & thick spreader plates on the underside of the alloy panels to prevent the belts bolts pulling through.

[newclear]

When I was looking for my rear seats, it took me quite some time to find the information. Mine is an 86 Hard Top and I "think" they have been retrofitted, as they don't seem to be Land Rover fitment. They also have no belts fitted.

I tried asking the local Police, no joy.

I finally got through to the Department of Transport local office and they told me, in roughly the same words (was quite a while ago, fine amounts may also have changed along with sentances).

In the event of being pulled over by the police with people in the rear seats:

With Belts: Due to the sideways facing seats, and them not being factory fitted you could be charged with carrying passengers in a dangerous manner as humans are not designed to bend sideways which they would be forced to do in an accident. Which I think came with a £50 on the spot fine.

Without Belts: This could charged with the basic "not carrying passengers with a seatbelt" which is the basic every car charge of I think it was £2000 and a possible jail sentance of up to 2 years, please correct me if this has changed it was about 6 months since I checked.

The thing the DoT guy (you guessed it, forgot his name... it's on a bit of paper somewhere ) tried to make me aware of is it's pretty much down to the Police officer with RETRO FITTED seats, I have no idea about the same deal with actual Land Rover seats.

I just decided to not use the seats, I use them for eating on when I go to events - set up a little table, out of the wind, cold and rain .

Obviously it would be better with Belts no matter what, having a passenger flung into the back of your head is never desirable, and a £50 fine is far less than the possible £2000?

Probably eventually remove them, already have plans to remove one (Air Tank for On Board Air ). Far less hassle to just not carry people, I know this isn't an option for some but is there any kind of certificate you can have for Dealer fitted seats?, if any of my friends ask it's a 3 seater . Need to find out how many are listed on the V5, if at all - don't have that with me at work though.

Cheers

Matt

[SteveG]

When I was looking for my rear seats, it took me quite some time to find the information......

I'm sorry, but you were misinformed, which is not unusual on automotive regulations.

On this kind of stuff, I wish people would do some research and get their facts straight before posting. I looked into this when I fitted the two rear benches and seatbelts to my 2005 90 hardtop.

Firstly it depends on whether your Defender is registered as a Car or Private Light Goods Vehicle, PLG. As a simple guide, CSW are usually registered as Cars, everything else as PLG, BUT check your V5 for your Defender.

Irrespective of whether it is registered as a car or PLG, you’ll need to tell the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) about the following changes to your vehicle:

• colour
  
• engine
  
• cylinder capacity
  
• fuel type (propulsion)
  
• replacing or modifying the chassis/monocoque bodyshell
  
• seating capacity
  
• weight of a goods vehicle
  

Wearing Seatbelts and the Law

• Drivers and adult front seat passengers must wear a seat belt, unless they have a medical exemption certificate
  
• Adults travelling in the rear of a car must also use seat belts, if they are fitted. It is the responsibility of the adult passenger (not the driver) to ensure that they are using the seat belt
  
• Children under the age of 12 or below 135cm in height must use a child restraint. A child restraint can not be used in a sideways facing seat.
  

Fitting of sideways facing seats

You are allowed to fit sideways facing seats in both Cars and PLGs.

Fitting of seatbelts

SVA

Seat belts - Car - Yes, PLG - No, What is tested - Evidence of compliance or visual assessment at test site

Seat belt anchorages Car - Yes, PLG - No. What is tested - Evidence of compliance with full type-approval standard or acceptable alternative

Installation of seat belts Car - Yes, PLG - No, What is tested - Evidence of compliance with type-approval standard or acceptable alternative

MOT testing

Seatbelts - all seatbelts installed are checked for type, condition, operation and security. All compulsory seatbelts must be in place.

For both Cars and PLG's...

cars registered before 1st April 1987

There are no seatbelt requirements for Centre Front Seat and Rear Forward Facing Seats

For all Cars and PLG's registered after 1st April 1987

Seatbelts are compulsory for centre front seat and all forward facing rear seats. There are then a number of guidelines for which seats must have a 3 point seatbelt depending on seat configuration.

Note. 1:

Rear facing or side facing seats are not required to be fitted with seat belts.

Note 2:

Occasional seats that fold when not in use, fitted in the rear of extended limousines are not required to be fitted with seatbelts

Note 3:

Seat belts fitted to the rear of the driver's compartment in a goods vehicle do not require to be fitted with seat belts, unless the seat is the specified passenger seat then a seatbelt is required.

Note 4:

A goods vehicle (eg. a car derived van) which has been converted to a passenger vehicle specification (ie. fitted with rear seats and side windows etc) is required to comply with the passenger vehicle requirements.

Vehicles Exempt from Seat Belt Installation Checks

Land Rover Defender 110 Station Wagon with type approved seat belt installations can be identified as follows:

manufactured 1990- from chassis number 455758

manufactured 1991 onwards- all chassis numbers.

To be exempt from the check, vehicles must have been fitted with the seat belt installation by the vehicle manufacturer when new. If you are aware that a vehicle with a chassis number shown above has had any seats/seat belts fitted by any other installer, eg. where it has been adapted to carry wheelchairs and has removable seats on tracking, it will not be exempt and will require an installation check.

For seatbelt and anchorage compliance you'll need to buy an SVA manual at a cost of 27 pounds. Or to easily conform without buying the manual is to follow the fitting arrangements of the front seat belts.

Hope this helps.

Steve

[joe1970]

Thanks for posting that information Steve it was very helpfull.

[Retroanaconda]

Excellent, so I don't *have* to have seat belts fitted to my rear bench seats then. Although I may still do so, however from my understanding this means they will be subject to scrutiny at MOT and such forth.

A bit of a dilemna really

[newclear]

I'm sorry, but you were misinformed, which is not unusual on automotive regulations.

On this kind of stuff, I wish people would do some research and get their facts straight before posting.

Fair point...

Lesson learned regarding posting answers, my bad . Thanks for the info too, very useful. Worrying really when your misinformed by the Department of Transport (doesn't surprise me though).

Cheers

Matt

[Turbocharger]

Excellent, so I don't *have* to have seat belts fitted to my rear bench seats then. Although I may still do so, however from my understanding this means they will be subject to scrutiny at MOT and such forth.

A bit of a dilemna really

If the belts aren't a testable item, they could be removed for test and refitted if you believe they make your vehicle safer in the intervening periods (even if they're not testworthy).

[missingsid]

Wearing Seatbelts and the Law

Drivers and adult front seat passengers must wear a seat belt, unless they have a medical exemption certificate

Adults travelling in the rear of a car must also use seat belts, if they are fitted. It is the responsibility of the adult passenger (not the driver) to ensure that they are using the seat belt

Children under the age of 12 or below 135cm in height must use a child restraint. A child restraint can not be used in a sideways facing seat.

Not quite true to be pedantic since you are?

Mine is also an 86", no seat belts were fitted at manufacture nor were they and still aren't, required.

The statement if they are fitted also applies to the Driver and Front Passenger in a vehicle first registered before the date the law was introduced. The seat belt law is not retrospective unless you fit them post ergistration.

Marc.

[TheHarv]

I have installed one bench in the back of mine (still need to do the other) with all the correct bars, spacers, bolts and whatnot. Yes it is a faff, yes it is pricey, but it is my kids that are mostly going to use it and they are worth every penny (although somedays I think otherwise).

Once I have the time and fit the 2nd bench, I will be doing an install guide with loads of pictures as most of the bits are underneather the car and the belt bar is just a small part of the whole install.

mad

Please do! It would be much appreciated by those of us who don't get a chance to see these things in the wild. Also the P/Ns for the additional parts if anyone has them.

[Retroanaconda]

If the belts aren't a testable item, they could be removed for test and refitted if you believe they make your vehicle safer in the intervening periods (even if they're not testworthy).

Well I was thinking of putting a bar across underneath the tub across the full length of the seat bench, and bolting the belt mounts through into that. Would act as a pretty good spreader plate I think. In time I suppose