Partsmen, a breed apart

[macspite]

I came to this forum by serendipity - trying to find information via google about 300TDi + core plug + leak I cam across Les Henson's article about changing the p gasket

Photos of the problems caused by a leaking gasket matched the water seepage on my Disco so, armed with the knowledge of what was required, I went in search of parts.

First stop was a unit just around the corner from one of my workplaces, near Guildford. These guys sell a lot of Landy kit on the net and via their walk-in counter. So I asked for water pump gasket, p gasket, core plug, oil air and fuel filters and sump plug washer (oil service in a couple of thousand miles, 3 weeks given the mileage I do).

What surprises me is that they don't do an oil service kit but have to look up the part numbers each time for each item on their slow computer system. No p gasket, no core plug (the two vital components of the repair) and no sump plug washer. Never having taken a 300TDi front end apart before I wasn't fully equipped to counter his assertion that there was no core plug behind the p gasket.

"So sell me a core plug anyway, they are all the same - 2inch/52mm"

But he wouldn't!

Finished doing what I was doing at workplace #1 and headed toward workplace #2 on an estate below Guildford Cathedral. THere is a Landrover main dealer on the way. Disco looked well out of place amongst the 2007 and 2008 models in the car park. Edging down the narrow path past the workshops to the parts department I almost tripped over a rusting 300TDi block without front covers. Checked it and guess what - core plug just where expected. Saw the partsman, requested p gasket, sump plug washers and core plug.

He went away, footsteps echoing and fading into the distance and then, after a 5 minute pause, returning with the gasket and a print out from microcat of the cylinder hea,d so I could identify the core plug. Explained again it was a cylinder block core plug. He went away, footsteps echoing and fading into the distance and then, after a 5 minute pause, returning with a print out of the cylinder block. It shows one core plug though obviously more are used. Tried explaining that although no plug was shown for the hole at the front of the block something had to fill it and I was willing to buy a plug just in case that was what was needed and anyway let's go and look at the rusting unit outside.

He looked both shocked and bemused, whether unable to comprehend the concept of "outside" or appalled by the idea of looking at a physical object and not a representation on a computer screen. But, give him his due, he went away, footsteps echoing and fading into the distance and then, after a 5 minute pause, returning with both the information that, although only one core plug was shown on screen, computer said six were needed to fully satisfy the block and, god bless him, with the core plug itself.

That just left the question of sump plug washers. Faced with the difficult choice of copper or aluminium and knowing that what was on the plug at the moment was neither, I elected for both. He went away, footsteps echoing and fading into the distance and then, after a 5 minute pause, returning with the washers.

Total time near on half an hour. Total cost less than five quid.

The 300TDi isn't an obscure engine. Les's article suggests a leaky P gasket is quite common. Yet two partsmen deny the existence of a core plug behind it, one to the point of refusing to sell me one.

Anyway, with the help of the article, brute force, ignorance and native cunning my water leak is solved. Now for the dodgy earth on the lights.

[neil00001]

I used to own a Suzuki Samurai, that was imported from Germany into Holland, which was where I was living at the time.

When I popped into the Suzuki dealer to buy UJ's, they asked for my chassis number to check which model I had, fair enough.

As my car came from Germany it wasn't on their system.

The literal answer from the Suzuki main dealer was, "your car dosen't exist on our system we cant help you".

Cheers

[Mark]

First place - Premier Supply? They are a trade place, and pretty much expect you to know what you want by part number. They can be good, they can be variable.

Second place - Hunters on ladymeade - There are a couple of guys in there who are really good, and a guy who is genuinely difficult, and seems to be the one who covers lunch times (when I tend to go in there...) - sounds like you got him on a particularly bad day....

generally, the information you need is here or hereabouts, so if all you do is walk in with a list of part numbers, there is very little they can do to muck it up for you!

I believe there is a link in the tech archive for both the manuals and the EPC/microcat software so you can look stuff up for free, but nothing beats a paper parts catalogue for ease of use

Sorry to hear you ran into a brickwall. I find you either get really good guys or really bad ones....

Mark

[ThreeSheds]

Good first post! Welcome to The Forum

I had a similar situation when I went to a well respected dealer and was asked to give the chassis number in order to get a set of fan belts for my 1990 RRC V8. While accepting that there are differing belt arrangements, I had thought that the phrase '1990 EFI Range Rover, non air-con' would be sufficient to identify the belts needed. The woman behind the counter said that without the chassis number the system wouldn't display the parts' listing, and without a part number their stock system wouldn't tell her where it is in the warehouse.

Next I went to a general spares shop (Auto Spares Kippax - AKA "the Toy Shop" - no connection) and - after a bit of a struggle identifying the engine due to the book not listing a 3.9 V8 - their chap nipped in the back and came back with half a dozen for me to try 'just in case'. The next week I took the ones I hadn't used back. Problem solved

[HovisTheme]

I remember a time when I were a lad, when I went to me local Land Rover dealer and asked the oily old bloke with an inch of ash on his fag for "one of those fings that goes in the groove in the crank nose" and he had it for me before his ash dropped!

[/HovisTheme]

:lol:

Roger

p.s. (and OT I'm afraid - but your mention of the Ferret reminded me..)

A few years ago a friend had a Ferret and a few of us would occasionally use it to go to posh country pubs/restaurants on Summer evenings - It was an absolute hoot to drive!

[mmgemini]

All I can say is Ian and Peter at Stratstone Stockton on Tees are brilliant.

Then for non Land Rover and oil filters and pads Nigel at Billingham Auto Parts is the best.

mike

[LittleBlue88]

Hi all

I was in the parts supply buisness for getting on 2 years and can tell you that it aint as simple as alot of you would think!

Apart from differing computer systems,the microfiche seems to have dissapered from most places wich did make things easier but the problem is the fact that most computer systems have so much info squeezed into them that getting anything but a straight answer outta them is near on impossible,with so many variants made,without info like chassis no. and sometimes reg no. there will be many choices! Add to that,alot of these so called "Parts Depts" are run by people who have never got their hands dirty with the stuff in question so understanding what you want can be quite challenging for them!

Just my take on it.

Cheers

[TJ101]

Would imagine, Land Rover's computer parts system is similar to Volvo, and most other Ford owned companies

With the on line system, the only way in, is via a Vin number,

Very nearly gone, are the days of the old boys, who could remember parts numbers and fitments in their head,, good old paper parts books, are now lost in the depths of parts department, collecting dust !! and microfiche when out, what 10 years ago ??

[LittleBlue88]

Microfishe is still in use in a few places...............................the dying few

[macspite]

I believe there is a link in the tech archive for both the manuals and the EPC/microcat software so you can look stuff up for free, but nothing beats a paper parts catalogue for ease of use

I've downloaded Microcat - I had a copy of Rave bought off eBay several years ago but hadn't transferred it to my current PC and can't find the CD. I can appreciate the problem these guys face the picture shows only one core plug going into the side of the block so there must be only one needed. Having said that I'm slightly surprised that knowledge gained over the years isn't applied in conjunction with the computer's findings.

Maybe the main dealer (I was trying to avoid naming names!) doesn't see that many P reg 300TDi owners any more so the knowledge has been lost but it amused me that the parts guy would prefer the evidence of the computer screen rather than the physical engine block sitting outside.

"It's no good you screaming and shouting and pointing at them on the shelf, computer says we haven't got any"

[macspite]

Apart from differing computer systems,the microfiche seems to have dissapered from most places wich did make things easier but the problem is the fact that most computer systems have so much info squeezed into them that getting anything but a straight answer outta them is near on impossible,with so many variants made,without info like chassis no. and sometimes reg no. there will be many choices! Add to that,alot of these so called "Parts Depts" are run by people who have never got their hands dirty with the stuff in question so understanding what you want can be quite challenging for them!

Cheers

I've got a friend who works with me occasionally who used to be in the trade. He moved away from parts a few years ago and helped run a breakers yard. His practical knowledge is extensive but due to the yard closing he is now both casual labour and looking to get back into the parts trade. Whilst he is ideal for knowing where "that funny shaped gasket which sits behind the casting that holds the water pump" is located on the shelves he has no computer skills. Hence he is unemployable

[Orange]

Ring Del at Bearmach, South East office. I did a rebuild on a 200TDi during the summer and the only part number he had to look up was the gasket between the block and timing case where the tensioner bolt goes through.....

You are right, though - a dying breed!

[macspite]

Ring Del at Bearmach, South East office. I did a rebuild on a 200TDi during the summer and the only part number he had to look up was the gasket between the block and timing case where the tensioner bolt goes through.....

Thanks for that!

I may well do so but I also now have Microcat working on my laptop which means I can create and print out a shopping list with descriptions and part numbers.to speed up the buying process I used the two parts suppliers detailed above purely as they were adjacent to or on the route to one or other of the places I work.

[white90]

Did you use the modified bolts with the new metal P gasket? as the original ones are replaced when the paper gasket is not longer used.

I did the P gasket and the main dealer brought the bolts out and said I need to swap these at the same time.

[macspite]

Did you use the modified bolts with the new metal P gasket?

Indeed I did - though I couldn't see any difference in the new and the old, I think the gasket may have ben replaced once already. I didn't really check the old one apart from noting the large bit missing that had let the water out.

The poor old vehicle seems to have been fairly badly abused in the past - the exhaust manifold came away from the head, setting the oil soaked sound insulation smouldering, shortly after I bough it. Close investigation revealed a couple of missing studs and a couple of others put into the head the wrong way round.

These problems are what led me to finding this forum and registering!

[Milemarker Type S]

Judging by your experiences I am rather glad I live less than 1/2 a mile from Brookwell- you wander in and give any of the staff a vague description of the sort of bit you are after (believe me I can be very vague on occasion!!!) and within minutes the bits are on the counter in front of you- generally along with the other bits that you didn't know you needed to do the job until you have headed home and taken it apart! I have never been asked for a VIN number and if there is any confusion they either head under your bonnet themselves or let you have all the possible bits and take back what you don't need... Top service- highly recommended (they do mail order as well!)

Si

(No connection- just happy customer)

[white90]

Si

funnily enough I wandered into Brookwells and picked up some gaskets/bolts

they only had 9 so I asked to have the other posted on, sadly a week later still no bolt.

called them yesterday to be told well it was posted.

I'll see what arrives after xmas.

shoddy service from exeter4x4 store last time as well

so went back to Brookwells.

will see if it arrives before shopping again.

[macspite]

Judging by your experiences I am rather glad I live less than 1/2 a mile from Brookwell- you wander in and give any of the staff a vague description of the sort of bit you are after

I was working at a station today that allowed me a drive back past Dropzone in Bury, near Pulborough, West Sussex. Also known as Colonel Chimps. Its a barn down an unmarked track with a collection of guys who between them sell military surplus, landy parts (mainly military), military comms, vehicles and also do servicing. Dropped off 1000 leaflets for our show (yes, sorry blatant advertising - link below ) and had a chat with a couple of the guys. Talked about my dealer experiences, immediately shown a P gasket, guy running the stores ha 20 odd years of landy parts experience and, more importantly is a landrover enthusiast himself, currently adding finishing details to immaculate restoration of military 90.

Serpentine belt was no problem, identified correct fitment from VIN prefix and even allowed a little seasonal discount on the price. He has got a great collection of microfiches including all the military ones.

That's the kind of partsman I respect!

[Milemarker Type S]

Si

funnily enough I wandered into Brookwells and picked up some gaskets/bolts

they only had 9 so I asked to have the other posted on, sadly a week later still no bolt.

called them yesterday to be told well it was posted.

I'll see what arrives after xmas.

shoddy service from exeter4x4 store last time as well

so went back to Brookwells.

will see if it arrives before shopping again.

Hi Tony- surprised at that- give them a call to chivvy them along... If no joy then let me know and I will pop in and see what is up.

[JimAttrill]

Did you use the modified bolts with the new metal P gasket? as the original ones are replaced when the paper gasket is not longer used.

I did the P gasket and the main dealer brought the bolts out and said I need to swap these at the same time.

I think that is because the bolts rust badly so they can easily shear either on removal or replacement. We sourced some stainless bolts, though my engine has the old bolts liberally greased with copper grease. If you keep your antifreeze level up it's not such a problem.

I have now changed my P gasket twice and it still occasionally weeps a bit, but as it is the new metal/plastic one it cannot blow out like the original paper one. I'll do it again when I overhaul the motor.

[disco_al]

The trouble these days is that most parts depts employ young lads from school, most of whom are younger than the oldest Disco's. They are trained on the newest software, by the manufacturers, for the newest vehicles - which is where the problem starts.

When i was working for a Ford Main agent Parts Dept. all the manufacturer training was done on the newest models, no mention of the older, obsolete cars, and of course how many "kids" joining the trade these days are interested in old models that aren't "cool" anymore (or rather you can't bolt some excessive alloys to them and drive round on a Saturday night with the stereo louder than a bolt of lightning from Thor himself)? Or even know how to change a light bulb?

I pride myself on having knowledge of older cars - forget needing to use a laptop to change the oil, if i can't see the floor (engine in most cases these days) when i open the bonnet, then i will not work on it.

I prefer to spot leaks early, rather than wait 6 weeks to see it dripping out of the under tray.

Anyway back to the topic in hand - modern computer look up systems rely on the manufacturer supplying chassis details to the programmers, in most cases this is how the *cough* parts persons of today are trained "Get the chassis number otherwise you will get it wrong - if no chassis number is available, then give blank stare and tell customer "sorry sir, without your chassis number the computer will not tell me anything"" - which as anyone who has used the MC, without training, knows, is complete rubbish - fill in the blanks and away you go - the only really relevant thing the chassis number provides is a break point for modified/updated parts.

I agree though, the old school parts depts are a dying thing - we hold onto all catalogues here, you never know what you may get asked for in this trade (Wheel cylinders for a Triumph Standard 10 last week, before Xmas)

[David Sparkes]

I feel I ought to contribute to this thread to say I have had good service from several different counter staff at Paddock Spares.

As I am a novice to the world of Series Land Rovers this has been very welcome.

[tel]

ive been a parts person most of my working life so can understand some of the things that annoy you but i also find it a pleasure to be awkward to people that start off being awkward to me too

ive lost track of the ammount of people that expect me to know what car they drive and what engine they have in it too

i work in an office of 10 and we all get a fair share of knob customers and top customers so its swings and round abouts

the thing with the chassis number just makes there life easier as it narrows the year range down for people that dont know the car very well, most managers say chassis only as that way they dont get stuck with wrong parts all the time that they cant send back

i hate going to my local audi dealer every time i see them i wana give em a slap as they are useless and dont know what they are talking about

[disco_al]

i also find it a pleasure to be awkward to people that start off being awkward to me too

i thought it was just us that had those customers.....

the usual is;

Customer "I need some brake pads for my car"

Advisor "Certainly, what car is it?"

Customer "Oh, I think it's a Ford of some sort"

Advisor "Do you have the registration number?" (Our system uses reg look up)

Customer "Oh, I don't know that, aren't they all the same?"

and that's one of the easier ones - the awkward customers are worse than that........especially the ones who think they know better than you......

[tel]

yep get it all the time

[Ryan]

i thought it was just us that had those customers.....

Somewhat OT, but goes to show it's not just the partsperson/customer relationship that has its problems:

· A priest rang 999 because he was in WH Smiths at Manchester airport and the staff wouldn't let him use their toilet

· A man rang 999 and said that he had asked the shop assistant at the pizza shop not to put mushrooms on his pizza and he had put mushrooms on it

· A woman called 999 to say that she was unable to get through to Strictly Come Dancing to vote for Tom Chambers in the final

· A man rang 999 to ask what his mobile number was because he knew it would appear on the call handler’s computer screen