roybatty666 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 As you may have known from my other thread I am fitting a new clutch and gearbox. All has been going to plan and today I got the old box and clutch off, swapped the bell housing mounted the new clutch and went to fit the new box 3 hours later and the blighter still will not go in The spigot slides in and using the old input gear on the box with it in 4th I turn the box shaft and can feel the splines mesh and I can push the box forward slightly then it just stops. I align the clutch with a clutch centering tool and have rechecked several times with a deep socket with a little tape on it and it slides through the clutch plate and into the flywheel. The fact the splines mesh and that the shaft has a chamfer on the end I can't see why it wont slide on, even it it was slightly out the chamfer would pull it in The engine and gearbox are at the same angles (I have tried multiple different ones), I have a transmission jack taking the weight of the gearbox but allowing me to lift it and move it about and a trolley jack on the engine keeping it at a decent angle Have I done something stupid? is there a knack? All the guides etc I have read don't mention anything special This is as far as it gets heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Get a socket on the crank at the front and a helper to turn it a tad to help engage the splines, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roybatty666 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 the splines feel engaged when I turn the the rear gear with the box in gear I can fell a clack clack clack as the splines notch over each other then I push the box when it is at this point and they mesh and I can see the clutch cover and flywheel rotate slightly. It maybe just the tapered ends of the splines are engaging, but no mater what wiggling or shoving the box will always bind at the shaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 How did you fit the spigot bearing - knock it in with a hammer or similar? If you hit it too hard, then the soft metal can distort and reduce the entry hole diameter for the input shaft. If the bellhousing is 30-35mm away from being fully home, then either the clutch plate is out of line/ the spigot bearing is damaged/ shaft at an agle. Slamming the gearbox forward (or losing your temper with it ), will also damage the edge of the bearing. It's quite usual to have to fiddle about for the gearbox to go the final distance, and normally - turning the engine or one of the prop flanges makes it go the rest of the way. If you've been at it for hours and are getting stressed-out, then walk away for 1/2 or so and take a rest - it really does make a difference. Clutch alignment is critical - is the tool you have a very snug fit? Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roybatty666 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 I am currenlty indoors for the day now and have sent the Mrs out to get takeaway I will have another bash tomorrow, I'll take the clutch off and check the spigot bush to make sure it is undamaged ( I havent used any force so it should be ok) and start afresh. It was all going to well so have been waiting for something to hold me up lol Cheers for the advice chaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 If you're removing the clutch, then make sure it slides onto the input shaft ok, you might have got a duff one. Measure the nose of the input shaft and see if you have a socket the same diameter and try it in the bearing. A small amount of grease on the splines, the input shaft nose, and inside the spigot bearing as well. Only a small amount in the bearing itself though or you'll hydrolock it and the shaft won't go in. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roybatty666 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 I did try the old clutch friction disk on the new gearbox just in case there was an issue with the shaft (the previous owner also had a 130 clutch on it I did try the socket with a small bit of tape to make is a tight fit in the clutch and that slipt through the clutch and into the spigot bearing so I thought it was lined up correctly. I am trying to keep it all lined up. The halfrauds tool I used seemed to hold it tight but it may have slipped but then I Would have thought the socket/tape test would have shown up the bad alignment. I will take it off and reset it and try again. Cheers for your help Les it is most appreciated As you seem to know all you don't happen to have a cure for a strained back after realigning a gearbox repeatedly for several hours do you *slopes off for a warm bath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 I don't take the weight of the gearbox at all. I've already had a disc removed, so have to be careful - it was rather painful Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlandy Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 if its a new box , do the studs and holes match up ? I say this becuase I have known a certain person on this very forum that found that he had a stud going into a 'non holed' area after about 2 days of trying to make it fit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roybatty666 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 I don't take the weight of the gearbox at all. I've already had a disc removed, so have to be careful - it was rather painful Les I was trying to achieve that with the transmission jack but I still had to stick my legs through the gaps in the floor to manoeuvre it, that has taken a toll bending down constantly. How people do Disco transmissions or even a Defender without a transmission jack I do not know. Now I am no wimp, although I am not quite the body builder chap of 2-3 years ago I still have some residual muscle if its a new box , do the studs and holes match up ? I say this becuase I have known a certain person on this very forum that found that he had a stud going into a 'non holed' area after about 2 days of trying to make it fit! I reused my bell housing so it can't be that but thanks for the suggestion, it is stupid things like that that catch you out lol After laying in the bath I have a plan in my head, clutch of, check spigot bush, test fit input shaft in spigot bush to make sure it all does fit and to get the boxes lined up, pull it apart leaving everything lined up, recenter clutch, fit clutch, then hopefully slide the gearbox home. It is terribly frustrating getting caught on something that should have taken a few minutes, I was hoping to have her finished today Still as mechanically minded as I am some things do come down to experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulublue Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 if its a new box , do the studs and holes match up ? I say this becuase I have known a certain person on this very forum that found that he had a stud going into a 'non holed' area after about 2 days of trying to make it fit! That's what I was going to say, although I don't know the forementioned person Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roybatty666 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 That's what I was going to say, although I don't know the forementioned person At least that wasn't "your" own stupidity, I may have possibly got excited about getting my Llama4x4 suspension kit and a nice set of ratchet spanners, this resulted in me fitting a front damper then realising after I did the axle bolt up on the shock that the nut had pulled the shock end through so much I couldn't get the ratchet spanner out. No problem I thought I will just undo it and.... oh wait its a ratchet I cant undo it as it just clicks the ratchet Luckily there is enough give in shock bushes to all ow mr crowbar to lift the shock up enough to get he spanner out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_a Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Had the same thing, try a different day. I tried for AGES getting the discovery box back in. Then when I went back the following weekend it slid in like a slidey thing. Get a mate to help if you can, it seemed easier with someone providing thrust force at the back and a guider near the front. make sure diff lock is in when you turn the prop flange and box in gear, as otherwise you just turn the other flange and not the shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roybatty666 Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 I have to fix my garage door first as it decided to un rivet itself in one corner when I closd it yesterday I am putting the box on without the transferbox on so have just got the main box in gear I am hoping with a fresh head and a slightly rested back all will go well today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlandy Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 good luck today - its amazing what a difference a sleep in between can do with these kind of jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Had to change my clutch recently, refitted the main gearbox on it's own, I only managed to get it engaged with the splines & on the studs just enough to put some of the nuts on, then I used the nuts to pull it all together, worked fine with my trolley jack in a supporting job underneath the gearbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roybatty666 Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 Well today was full of ups and downs Pulled the box back removed the clutch and could see the spigot was hitting low on the spiggot bearing, not damage just a mark on the outside face. I therefore lined the box up minus clutch to get it all straight and it went in fine so pulled it back ready to put the clutch on. Recentered clutch and fitted, I slid box on and it just slid home with no effort Went to put the clutch slave cylinder on and the blighter had crept out over night and what retard at Land Rover thought it was a good idea to stick the bleed screw up there where you can't get a spanner on it! (unless a previous owner put in in upside down). Anyway sorted that and then came to get the transfer box on.... .... what an awkward git that is, trying to get it on the transmission jack under the car was fruitless so I had to do it outside the car and lift the car with a hilift to give me more room, even then it wouldn't roll under so had to ratchet strap the lot together and drag it over on its side and flip it over underneath. Then whilst manoeuvring it I clipped the input seal and pushed it through and it fell into the transfer box (again who at Land Rover thought not putting a step on the hole to stop the seal being pushed through was a good idea?) Seal back in and I though the input gear in would be a far better idea and help line things up so popped that in and did up the retaining ring and cover plate when the transferbox decided it wanted to get back on the the floor as it felt I hadn't had enough grief At that point I knew today was done as I had no energy to lug the transferbox back up, I may rip out the seatbox to give me room to lift and manoeuvre it, leaving it in seems to have been a false economy. I wish my chums would play with Landys rather than their xbox360s so I had someone to lend a hand with the heavy stuff (I do like my xbox360 as well to be fair). Luckily I have taken Mon / Tues/ Weds off as well as getting the bank holiday off so I still have time to do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I feel your pain When I replaced the clutch on my 90 then 300mles later had to do it all again due to not adjusting the new mastercylinder addto your transfer box a crawler box and the whole thing becomes unbelievably heavy. All done on my own outside on a gravel driveway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I was trying to achieve that with the transmission jack but I still had to stick my legs through the gaps in the floor to manoeuvre it, that has taken a toll bending down constantly.How people do Disco transmissions or even a Defender without a transmission jack I do not know. Now I am no wimp, although I am not quite the body builder chap of 2-3 years ago I still have some residual muscle we used the tractor loader and chain on my old series 3 mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roybatty666 Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 I feel your painWhen I replaced the clutch on my 90 then 300mles later had to do it all again due to not adjusting the new mastercylinder addto your transfer box a crawler box and the whole thing becomes unbelievably heavy. All done on my own outside on a gravel driveway. I take some comfort in the fact I have a garage, and although that gives me a foot and a half either side I can just walk away leaving a transfer box on its nose under the car when I have had enough The misses was amazed at the bruises on my knees, I think I have nelt on so many tools and nuts (oo er) I just don't feel it any more. The injuries on my hands and limbs are almost like a documentation of the job I am doing , skined this knuckle on the edge of the footwell undoing a bellhousing bolt, tis leg bruise is dropping the transfer box on myself, bump on the head turning around in a small garage and head butting the wheel on the back on the car , I could go on and on Oh I had my laptop in the garage to check out Les's guide if I got stuck and managed to drip enough blood into my keyboard that when it congealed it actually stopped my shift key from being pressed down that was from a bur on my transmission jack that sliced my finger big time. Anyway enough of my ineptitude I want a bigger garage with a 4 post lift and heating, is that too much to ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Well your blood isn't on my hands Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roybatty666 Posted December 29, 2008 Author Share Posted December 29, 2008 Well your blood isn't on my hands Les. I'm sure claims direct would tell me otherwise if you would like to settle out of court feel free to pm me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 If you can do it at any point in the future, I'd recommend the 4 post ramp..... Les has changed my Gearbox and Transfer box recently and with a couple of us under the 110 on the ramp it didn't seem that tough.. (And the good fortune of having the expert doing the work of course..) Still, you have the battle scars to show you did it all yourself.... Heat would be nice to have when working on the truck, but that will have to be a pipe dream... Good luck with the final stages.... Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason2 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 How people do Disco transmissions or even a Defender without a transmission jack I do not know. I use about 6 racket straps to hold box, pull it back, then lower and reverse to put it back! takes ages but a sure way of doing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I use 2 trolley jacks and a bit of wood Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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