Hillbilly Raider Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 As some of you know , over a year ago i had an accident whilst out walking which resulted in me having an op on my knee. Well here we are a year later and its still not right and i need a second op. The land that i was on i have walked most of my life rarely seeing more than 5 or 6 other people whilst i was there. Times have changed and now there is that many people walking the track on a Sunday that a carpark and ice cream van have now been installed!!! The NT who now own the land have tried to deal with the corrosion and have placed wooden supports on the slopes to retain the soil but they are so high that that is how i did the damage to my knee! (i had to walk up them sideways) However it now seems unlikely that i will never be able to walk the paths again and as it is about to become a National Park i cant even drive my truck up there!!! Never really thought how the whole Rambers right to roam affected disabled people up till now! Had thought about suing the NT and the RA but i know i havent a flying pigs chance!!!!! Mandy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 attack em with your bath plug mand, u know how much that can hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 yup, the point of access for disabled has always been raised during the dibacle over the past few years and ignored. Maybe doing a trawl of the disables www sites may bring up some campaigns that are possibly on at the moment about this matter, might be able to bring them into view on this forum et cetera? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Thewe was a guy years ago in the AWDC who was heavily disabled, had to be lifted in and out of his 90, and had the full hand controls set up. Really nice chap, used to trial and marshal, and green lane. His speciality was to drive up to ramblers waving their arms shouting a screaming and then wait until the had finsihed ranting and then "explain" he was wheelchair bound, heavily disabled and whatever else he may be, he was not "....a simple minded bigoted sad excuse for a human being". Saw many a time ramblers go pink with embarrasment and shuffle off.......he really gave them stick Superb, even better was occasionaly wifey or another bobble hatted prat spotted the disabled badge / controls / and tried to whisper in ranters ear to shut up or pull them away, this was even better as the nutter would be a shouting and a screaming, whilst all the others would be shuffling about getting more and more uneasy and embarrased Some while in the past the ROW lady of the time Liz Hurley arranged through the AWDC to take disbaled kids off road on lanes, we had a similar incident, it really did beggar belief... Voltare seems to have completley missed them in their eductaion.... " Whilst I may not agree with what you want to do, but I defend your right to do it" Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 ISTR reading a thread on the ramblers forum where they showed about as much regard for the disabled as they do for 4x4 drivers - "Never mind, tough" Would be interesting to see how far you get though Mandy - these days people can appeal all sorts of strange malarky through the European Court of Human Rights so you might have more chance than you think, as they are effectively denying you access. You need a leccy wheelchair with Simex on, now that would be fun and it would annoy the hell out of the bobble hats as even they might think twice about whingeing at people in wheelchairs... then again, maybe not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dottythe90 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 " Whilst I may not agree with what you want to do, but I defend your right to do it" Doesn't come into the equation with most of the bobble hatted brigade does it ? I'm right, You're wrong - black & white. Grey doesn't exist. Came across one just like that in Wales at the weekend, on her own as our 4 vehicles drove past. We went to give her a wave, she just stuck her nose in the air and looked the other way. Even the Fiat Panda 4x4 with us didn't raise a smile with her. STEVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 As some of you know , over a year ago i had an accident whilst out walking which resulted in me having an op on my knee.Well here we are a year later and its still not right and i need a second op. The land that i was on i have walked most of my life rarely seeing more than 5 or 6 other people whilst i was there. Times have changed and now there is that many people walking the track on a Sunday that a carpark and ice cream van have now been installed!!! The NT who now own the land have tried to deal with the corrosion and have placed wooden supports on the slopes to retain the soil but they are so high that that is how i did the damage to my knee! (i had to walk up them sideways) However it now seems unlikely that i will never be able to walk the paths again and as it is about to become a National Park i cant even drive my truck up there!!! Never really thought how the whole Rambers right to roam affected disabled people up till now! Had thought about suing the NT and the RA but i know i havent a flying pigs chance!!!!! Mandy. Why can't you sue? Was there no neglect to safety? Were there hand rails/holds to help people up these steps? If you don't feel good about joining the "compensation culture" then how about settling out of court in return for improved disabled access? The NT surely have a duty of care or somesuch to prevent the danger of injury to people on their land - and the disabled rights legislation must affect them too in terms of access for the disabled. Chris Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M005 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Where is this land? The duty of care / responsibility of the NT (my employer) reduces exponentially the further away you get from a managed building. In other words, the NT have a high duty of care / level of responsibility for health & safety issues when visitors are walking around a property with a pay barrier, however the level of responsibility falls dramatically for the open countryside spaces. The reason for this is partly the lack of pay barrier and secondly the assumption that individuals are responsible for their own safety in open countryside. There was mention of hand rails above; the steps installed to help delay the errosion would have been subjected to H & S guidelines when being installed, but also the conservation issues may have meant no hand rails as it is seen as intrusive to the view / surroundings / landscape / ambience of the area. A lot of countryside properties have few signs etc for this very reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 the steps installed to help delay the errosion would have been subjected to H & S guidelines when being installed Should have been, agreed, but were they? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M005 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Should have been, agreed, but were they?Chris Without knowing where & when installed I can't confirm, with that info I can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Sorry to hear of your injury Mandy not something I would wish on anyone. I'll probably open a hornet's nest saying this, but I do agree very strongly with Mark's statement that individuals are (or at least should be) responsible for their own safety in open countryside. Was the route you were taking when you had your injury a footpath or was it general open countryside with no defined walking route? I suppose the analogy is off road driving - if you don't like the look of the obstacle, don't drive it - we all have different driving abilities and different vehicles too. Making the countryside accessible to all is a commendable goal and in my business we spend significant amounts of money constructing DDA compliant facilities. However, I don't think this approach should be applied unilaterally. It is true that there are many paths and areas of the countryside that are totally inaccessible to the disabled person, but to make them accessible would probably be finacially prohibitive (not the only concern I know) and also in many cases ruin the appeal of the place too. You are correct that it is unfair. Life is unfair. If the NT are negligent then you should pursue a claim with no guilt. However, if they are not then I think it is a case of biting the bullet and getting on with your life. I know it is easy for me to say as an observer, but that's my 2p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Raider Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 Problem as i see it is that i can not prove that it was how i damaged my knee. I have the medical records to prove that my knee is damaged, but no Proof that i damaged it on their land.! I can not say too many juppies using the paths have changed the terain, (highsight of photos showing the differance over the years would have helped, but i didnt know 10 or 20 years ago i would need them!!!) as i would be just as guilty as the Ramblers of trying to say who could and who couldnt walk along that path. In an ideal world things in the countryside would still be as tranquill as they were in my childhood and i could walk the path without bumping to in a hoard of Sunday "strolers" But this is not an ideal world we live in any more.! they are here in their droves and no amount of me throwing my toys out of the pram is going to change that!! All i want is to be able to take my grandkids one day (no rude comments please!) up there to see the views of the countryside (it is one of the most spectacular views in West Sussex IMO) from whence they came, be it by foot or by car! for many of the walkers it has no sentiment attached other than its a nice walk and a nice view, for me and mine it is HOME. Maybe the way to go is to get the head of the NT the RA and Mr Blur, find out where their home is or their favorite place .... brake their legs and then say you try it!? And when they find out how much they miss it... remind them that THEY are now a minority and therefore dont count!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M005 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Mandy I gather there are no ROW's for the LR? You may be able to use another form of motorised buggy or similar to access the area, assuming that it is accessible without using the steps. One of the key elements of the NT is accessibility of everything they own, and they go a long way to achieving this aim. If you think this (or something else) may be an option for you to get up there then PM me with details of where it is and I will try to find out the local property manager / warden and see if they can assist. Although the chance of being able to take the LR up there if ROW don't exist will be very slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Raider Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 Bish no worries mate you have a right to say what you think and i did not start the conversation to get support or sympathy. I also agree that handrails would spoil the look of the place, and i also agree that no one made me go up there that day. However i do think that the "steps" were too high and not enough thought was put in when they were placed. I was just one of the unlucky ones as i am sure many enjoy it safely each and every day. I seem to remember that another popular view/walk some where else has had to have a gravel path laid as so many walkers have warn it away.?! now that opens up another can of worms if its true! What is beauty in one persons eyes? what is freedom in anothers? Who is right moraly who is right legaly? Town v country, young v old? Questions i doubt that i will never know the answers to in my lifetime! P.S. the place is called Harting Down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Raider Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 On a lighter note this thread seems to be attracting a few viewings! Either the topic (access for the disabled) is one many find interesting or... you all just want to see what i am ranting on about now!!?? answers on a postcard please! on second thoughts ..... On a serious note my disablity is not that bad that i need the use of a motorized wheel chair i can walk but not as far and as well as i did before. This how ever has really opened my eyes to that fact that many others can not even do this! I will be looking to join a group that champions for disabled access and would value any help in doing so? Maybe we could also help and encourge disabled people to join our band of merry men (and women!)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathtub Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Just a thought how do you hurt your knee going up steps ???/ If your not already a retard Old & fat Or just stupid If you were already 1 of the above why were you let out alone without care If anyone cant walk around in the wilds without hurting themslves then tough go for a walk around Sainsburys ! Kind & caring of Surrey .Love you all. But a bit more on topic if i break a half shaft on a site can i sue the land owner !!!!!!! for neglect it should be flatter ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Raider Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 Just a thought how do you hurt your knee going up steps ???/If your not already a retard Old & fat Or just stupid If you were already 1 of the above why were you let out alone without care If anyone cant walk around in the wilds without hurting themslves then tough go for a walk around Sainsburys ! Kind & caring of Surrey .Love you all. But a bit more on topic if i break a half shaft on a site can i sue the land owner !!!!!!! for neglect it should be flatter ? In answer to the your 1st point: dont think so in answer to your 2nd: yes and yes! your 3rd: sometimes! and in answer to how i hurt my knee in the first place: i am 5ft 3 and the "steps/retainers whatever" were practicly up to my waist in height so i had to crab walk them! I also shop at Asdas not Sainsburys! Still each to their own i wish you well with your lawsuit with said landowner if indeed you do break a half shaft! I on the other hand do not intend t sue anyone, merely have come to realize how difficult it is to not be able to get around so well any more ! Kindest Regards Mandy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinTheCop Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I on the other hand do not intend t sue anyone, merely have come to realize how difficult it is to not be able to get around so well any more ! Blimey...... That's a coincidence then. As there is also someone called Hillbilly Raider over on the Land Rover Addict forum that posted this yesterday. What i want to know is this........CAN I SUE THE NATIONAL TRUST??????? What's the chances of that then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Raider Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 Yep that was me but did you note the wording? "can i sue" NOT "i am going to sue????? Asking advice and acting on it are 2 differant things are they not? Anyway Disabled access is the main point of this topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millsy Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Harting Down... know it well. Bad luck, and welcome to the countryside..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divster Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Mandy, like others have said, your injury is very unfortunate and one which I would not wish on anybody. I regularily get called to assist those in difficulty/ injured persons and those who are missing in the Peak District. As part of a mountain rescue team most of the calls I attend are to persons who have accidently injured themselves. Some of the injuries sustained are likely not to affect the person in later life, some will find that the injury will affect their abilites after the accident (like yours) and unfortunately some will not live through the accident. I all of the incidents I have attended and in debriefs after incidents, I can never once recall an injured party asking if they could sue the land owner. Most walkers (that I have spoken to) are happy in the knowledge that that they take part in the activity at their own risk. Although most of the incidents we attend are in the national park, they are on paths or in areas which mostly belong to private land owners. The Countryside and Rights Of Way Act (CROW Act) has forced many land owners to give further unrestricted access to their property. Whilst I am all for the right to roam and the new areas CROW has released, I believe that the expectation for all land owners to maintain all of their (sometimes extensive) property so that there is no possibility of a member of public injuring themselves is not attainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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