Geminidawn Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I have a 3.9 EFi V8 that has been laid up without turning over for some time. It ceased to run after a multitude of electrical problems that have now been sorted. Now the problem is the engine itself since it has not run for a while it now dose not want to fire up. The engine was very stiff to begin with so both the engine and starter were serviced. Now it now turns freely, it's got spark, compression and it's getting fuel but it just ain't firing. Everything has been tried to coax it back to life, ethanol, gas etc, etc. But it is just being stubborn. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 It's getting fuel where - to the fuel rail or coming out of the injectors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 And are you sure it's fuel and not water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 It's getting fuel where - to the fuel rail or coming out of the injectors? Injectors, all systems are go and each time it's tried there is a few pops and bangs, the timing is sound but it just don't run. I have a feeling that once it dose start it will continue to do so but getting it past that inital hurdle is proving difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 And are you sure it's fuel and not water Hey I may not be that mechanically minded but I can tell petrol from water. Yes it is petrol on the plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 How fast is it cranking, if not fast enough it will not fire Make sure battery is fully charged, good earth and cranking good and fast, clean plugs, clean rotor arm, and cap ..and give it a sqirt of Easy start maybe too Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 How fast is it cranking, if not fast enough it will not fireMake sure battery is fully charged, good earth and cranking good and fast, clean plugs, clean rotor arm, and cap ..and give it a sqirt of Easy start maybe too Nige Cheers Nige, yeah, keeping the battery charged is a daily routine even tried a booster but the fast cranking is short lived before I have to leave it to charge up again. Also tried the Easy Start, a lot of back firing but no result. Plugs are new so are the leads. Will have a look at the rotor arm and cap though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobtailBogey Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 yteah all i can suggest has already been said. as when i firsat got my RRC it had been stood for a while. make sure its all lubed and clean and check the inlet pipe from afm to inlet chamber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 the fast cranking is short lived I'd try jumping it from a running vehicle with a good battery, if it's not cranking fast then it sounds like your battery is dud. Also, be aware if the plugs foul up with too many failed starts they will need cleaning again - they won't start with fouled plugs even if everything else is perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Sparks on ALL cylinders ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teslo Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 is there spark at right moment? Not to try fire up when on exhaust cycle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 plug leads on the right plugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 plug leads on the right plugs? Sure all in the right place and firing in the right order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyv8 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 youve tried all the technical stuff i would drag it up the road and try bump starting it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teslo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 i am sure you've checked that but i have almost same sympthoms when timing was 360 degrees retarded. That was reason why i mentioned that. In my case i had to turn crankshaft 360 degrees to TDC and set it again for 1st cylinder. When it was incorrect it sometimes fired, but only due to residual fuel in cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastcard Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 If you are 100% sure everything is in the correct place and your dizzy hasn't been removed and then replaced 180 degrees out, I would then try the tow/ drag (kellyv8 ) down the road (bump start). I had a 3.5 on carbs which had similar symptoms (had been left and would pop and bang a bit). It did take about 15 minutes of constant trying on the starter to finally get it going (did let it cool between tries, but still not very good for the starter!). A bump start being towed would be a lot easier and gets the engine twirling a bit faster. Failing that, I think it is back to the diagnostics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 youve tried all the technical stuff i would drag it up the road and try bump starting it Unfortunately this is not an option, where the engine was a bit stiff to begin with the wheels are absolutely solid but that is another days problem. Back to what FridgeFreezer was saying I'm looking at the fuel distribution, sparks and electrics seem to be ok and the cylinders are getting fuel but I wonder if the fuel distribution is working as it should, some of them too much and some not enough. I'm going to remove the fuel rails and injectors as soon as I get a new O ring kit ordered in. What is the best way of testing the injectors without having to bring the vehicle to a diagnostics centre (which is 50 miles away)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Even with one or two duff injectors/plugs/leads/cylinders it will still run (albeit badly!). You have a system wide problem - I'd be looking again at the ignition system...it tends to be the weak point on these engines. The injection system may be poorly designed, but it tends to work. Are you 120% sure the ignition timing isn't 180 degrees out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 A mate of mine had been changing an inlet manifold and distributor to convert a Vauxhall motor from carbs to EFI about and all it would do when it was put back together was pop and bang. First thing i said was spark timing/lead order, but he assured me they were correct, he'd taken the cap off the old dizzy and clipped it onto the new one. After many hours of head scratching i looked at the lead order myself, and they were completely wrong. after some more head scratching, we discovered that while the cap fitted both dizzys, it went on 90 degrees out of phase on the new one, and the leads all had to be moved round by one position. If your getting fuel, air and a spark, it will start. You have fuel and air.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Tow/bump-starting not an option if it's automatic of course, but you knew that already..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Tow/bump-starting not an option if it's automatic of course, but you knew that already..... No it is a manual just that the wheels are solid. However I've since heard from the guy who sorted out the electrics and he said the problem may be with the main injection solenoid and wants to take another look at it before I start pulling it apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Didnt you already say you had fuel? If your getting fuel the ECU is live, the pump is running and the injectors are firing. None of that would be happening if the managements relays were broken... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QTdarren Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 hi mate , how long stood up for , i had a classic stood for just over a year in that time the tappets had lost there oil due to draining, and a few didnt like being compressd for that long , poss it may just be dead tappets, ?????????????????????????, a good ole drag up zee road may sort it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Didnt you already say you had fuel?If your getting fuel the ECU is live, the pump is running and the injectors are firing. None of that would be happening if the managements relays were broken... It's a hybrid so it's a custom wiring job. Since it was built there has been no end of electrical problems so I just had it re-wired recently, I can only imagine that there are still a few ghosts left in the machine. When we first turned it over there were some pops and bangs and there was petrol on some of the sparkplugs that were removed for inspection. The relays were checked and found to be ok. Whether if something has blown since it wouldn't suprise me, there is a lot of tracing back to do both electrical and mechanical. I thought there would be a simple answer to this problem guess I'll have to leave it to someone who really knows what they're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geminidawn Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 hi mate , how long stood up for , i had a classic stood for just over a year in that time the tappets had lost there oil due to draining, and a few didnt like being compressd for that long , poss it may just be dead tappets, ?????????????????????????, a good ole drag up zee road may sort it. About the same as yours, over a year. I wish it was that simple. Everything in the engine was stiff to start with but since re-wiring it was oiled and serviced, on saying that not everything will run as freely as it should until it runs warm for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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