Dads Toy Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I've just replaced the steering drop arm ball joint (didn't take the arm off) and now have a daft problem. The rubber cover won't stay on! Initially I used an aftermarket kit and that included a cover that was bell shaped and with no give in it and every time I turned the steering wheel it popped off the arm. I bought the genuine LR kit and that has a bellows type cover and I fitted that, safe in the knowledge that there is plenty of flex in it. Only problem is, that also just pops off the steering arm as well! I cleaned the arm up before fitting and the cover fits over the lip and the spring thingy holds it on but only until you turn the steering wheel a couple of times. There is no obvious lip that the cover fits over it's more like a straight extension. Why won't it stay on? When I put the steering arm back onto the pin, the pin sits at an angle (sort of pointing backwards) and not vertical - is this right? The reason I changed it was because the original cover had done exactly the same and water had got in wrecking the joint. Beginning to think the arm isn't the right one, are ther different one's? Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I had the same problem; I dispensed wih the service of the springy thing and used 2 thin tie wraps joined together, narrow enough to get under the lip of the rim. It seems to get a much better grip (could hardly be worse), and it's stayed put ever since. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Not all drop arms have a lip for the boot to sit on machined into them. Some have a replaceable thin steel lip, a new one should be present in an OE kit. It's an L section ring that fits on the top of the drop arm, widest section to the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicTheOrange90 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 After replacing my ball joint I had same problem, and I have used aircraft locking wire (stainless wire) to wrap around and then secure. Its not perfect but grips the bellows firmly against the drop arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Toy Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share Posted July 18, 2009 Thanks for all those suggestions - it's not just me then! I have the genuine LR kit and there isn't an L section there. There definitely isn't a lip on the section the boot sits on and I thought I might try filing a small recess to assist. Zip ties next and then ...... Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 If you look at the picture of the drop arm ball joint kit on Paddocks web site, it shows it as part of the kit. And that's a non genuine one. So why you haven't had one in two different kits is anyones guess, but that's the part you need. There's been one in every OE and non OE kit I've ever had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Toy Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share Posted July 18, 2009 This is what I got in the genuine LR kit - no L section there so perhaps it's Paddocks next time. Filing a small recess didn't work, as soon as I moved the pin the boot slipped off. Zip tie seems to be holding so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 that'll be this kit then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Toy Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share Posted July 18, 2009 That's the fella - had to be ordered from my local Land Rover dealer as no one seems to carry any stock at all nowadays. Zip tie still holding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Seen it before where the metal ring had come off the drop arm so there was no recess for the boot to sit in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Guy's do yourself a big favour and fit a disco 1 solid drop arm-i've done this to mine and instead of 3+hours to change the drop arm ball joint it takes me 20 minutes maximum to change a track rod end,yes you do have to get a steering damper bracket sorted out but for the initial hassle of getting the solid drop arm and the bracket sorted out it's really worth doing and i've also found the steering on my 90 is a lot more precise too It also stops me chopping the poxy drop arm off if i can't remove it to fix the drop arm ball joint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Toy Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 Actually changing the joint in situ wasn't as bad as I feared, but your suggestion sounds good. I guess the big problem is getting the old arm off and how did you go about the steering damper bracket? Is there something that can be used or do you have to get one made up? Zip tie still holding! Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Actually changing the joint in situ wasn't as bad as I feared, but your suggestion sounds good. I guess the big problem is getting the old arm off and how did you go about the steering damper bracket? Is there something that can be used or do you have to get one made up?Zip tie still holding! Malcolm Removing the drop arm is patience and the willingness to get physical with the f****er (percussively, of course). I haven't bought it yet, but if you change the drag link to the "wrong" version of the solid (Dan Bar) type, you get the bolt-on damper bracket for free. That said, it's only a bit of angle and two U-bolts: Heavy duty track rod / drag link - picture for illustration only! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I Should have added that before using tie wraps I dressed the top edge of the sleeve out a bit using a small ball pein hammer. I got given the metal ring in my kit but it wouldn't fit either inside or outside the sleeve. I tried cutting a bit out to slip it over the top, and secure with a minute weld but it was having none of it. So, a few light taps spread the top of the rim out a bit more, but I did have the arm in the vice. I'd second the Discovery arm advice. Re the steering damper, the bearmach catalogue shows their version of Dan bars, and alleges with the increased weight of the arms the damper is unnecessary. Anybody got any thoughts on whether you really need it(at least for 'normal' use)? Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 and alleges with the increased weight of the arms the damper is unnecessary. Anybody got any thoughts on whether you really need it(at least for 'normal' use)? It's mostly there to protect the steering box from shocks. I can't conceive that a solid bar of those dimensions adds much mass for damping purposes! (I only used the link for the picture, honest, not the physics!) On a non-PAS vehicle a retro-fit (optional) damper helps protect your thumbs ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Toy Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 OK plan coming together now thanks. When it goes again (zip tie still holding despite not being able to either file a small recess or tap the top out enough) then it's going to be big hammer/angle grinder time to remove the old drop arm, put a Disco one on and make a bracket for the steering damper link. I'm about to visit a chum with a Disco series 1 so can at least see how it should fit together. Silly question, but why on earth is the drop arm on so tight? It doesn't seem to be taking that much strain, it's got a BIG locking washer and only goes side to side. The prop shaft is only held on by 4 small bolts and that must take far more. Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Silly question, but why on earth is the drop arm on so tight? It doesn't seem to be taking that much strain, it's got a BIG locking washer and only goes side to side. The prop shaft is only held on by 4 small bolts and that must take far more. A question of consequences? I appreaciate that the leading end of a prop coming off ain't good, but it has to overcome a bit of friction and break four bolts (in shear) before it's a problem. People report snapped halfshafts, but not snapped prop bolts (anyone?). The drop arm / box shaft is in regular shear, the realtionship is vital and if the arm falls off its probably fatal. I'm surprised that the nut isn't crenalated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Mine's just gone. Left front wheel took a massive knock out on the lanes this weekend and it seems to have travelled down the arm and straight into the ball joint. Was quite new too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I changed mine about 5 years ago as i really had had enough of changing the drop arm ball joint and as for the damper bracket you could either go down the QT route using they're "dan bar" with the bracket attachment(which is what i have now done) or you could try and do what i did a while ago which is weld up a bracket onto some 30x30mm box tubing sleeving the drag link tube and using 6mm plate to make the bracket making sure that you get the right angle when welding the bracket in situ I tried all the usual buggering about with pullers and ended up doing a lot of hammering til the point of no return and ended up using the angle grinder on it to get rid of the original drop arm and the damned ball joint, it really has made a hell of a difference in any maintenance that i do now if i have to change the track rod ends i do all four now in a oner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I thought people with discovery's fitted Defender style ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave88sw Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 did all disco 1's have solid arms then? I'm sure i have a steering box off a 200 with a ball joint in the drop arm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Les Henson's article says it's on mental tight. It's way beyond that. I couldn't really get a hammer to it. I had a 10 tonne hydraulic puller pulling so much the tommy bar bent, and I gave it a light warming with oxyacetylene ( trying to get a lot of heat into the arm quickly before the steering box noticed). It didn't move, and I finally hit it with a 4lb lump hammer as well, more in frustration than in hope, and it came loose. I like heat as it minimises mechanical damage, and I was changing the box seals so I took a chance with heat but it can't be recommended. But mine was quite rusted inside on the splines, so a few good soaks with plus gas in the days before battle commences might pay off. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 did all disco 1's have solid arms then? I'm sure i have a steering box off a 200 with a ball joint in the drop arm... Some of them did have that configuration Dave but the later ones had the solid drop arm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Toy Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 Has anyone got the part number for the Disco arm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Is the Disco drag link the same length as the Defender one? I have a heavy duty bar and wondered if I could just ad the bracket and use it with the disco flat arm...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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