paul mc Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I need to upgrade my licence to be able to pull trailers about, as I am only 24 I haven't got a trailer entitlement to be able to pull heavier stuff. I will shortly have my hybrid project up and running so will need to pull it around for a while on a transporter before it has its SVA test, and also I need to occasionally move horses about. My question is, should i just do the basic trailer test after a few lessons or if i take a higher category test, such as LGV or HGV, would that then allow me to pull a trailer with a normal car as well as drive bigger trucks and stuff. At the moment i dont need to be able to drive 7.5t stuff or bigger, but if I eventually buy a big horsebox it would be ashame to have to do more tests again. So basically, can i take a LGV or HGV test which would then allow me to pull a car transporter with my Ford Ranger? Also, anyone here in the Hertfordshire area who could recommend a trailer driving instructor. I can drive a trailer well but probably have some bad habits which need ironing out before my test, I would also like them to cast an eye over my test vehicle and trailer to make sure it is acceptable. I am intending to take the test with a Ford Ranger and Ifor Williams horsebox, so i dont expect any problems. But there are no warnings in the dashboard indicating that a trailer is correctly wired up, i read somewhere that there should be an illuminated warning light come on if any trailer lights are out, is this necessary for the test? Cheers, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 If you take the equivilent of the old class 2, now known as category C you still wouldnt be able to tow trailers over the normal "B" limits, but can drive non-articulated large goods vehicles. If you were to take the C+E test (Class 1 HGV, allowing you to drive articulated lorries etc) then i THINK the +E would also apply to the B part of the licence (ie the car part) allowing you to tow things around in your Ranger. C+E is pretty spendy though. The other option might be to see if there is a C1+E test, which would allow you to drive LGV's upto 7.5T plus trailers, but i dont know if that exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Yikes, and I thought we were over-bureaucratic... here there are no SVA, and just class G-M and one for busses/trucks over a certain weight, and Z for air-brakes... nothing for trailers... but then we register trailers as vehicles as well so they are at least checked out, the fact you guys do not have ownership papers for trailers is making buying one from there really frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Can of worms mate, can of worms. Im also looking into doing my E test for the same reasons, its very complicated. On my other forum we've been doing a hell of a lot of research into cat E entitlement, and it aint pretty. According to statistics we've found, only 20% of people turning up to test expecting to pass actually do - 80% fail. You need to drive on the road for 1 whole hour, and drive according to the standards needed to pass the current normal test. You must have a trailer warning light fitted, or a buzzer. You must also have a rear view mirror for the examiner apparently, although since you have to use a box trailer the same width as the body of the vehicle and the same height, i cant understand this one. Best advice we have, is to go to a centre that does trailer tuition and use their vehicle. If you take a Cat C test, you will still only be able to tow 750kgs, even if you did HGV (nonartic, whichever that is) you can still only tow 750Kgs. To tow any more you must have cat E entitlement. If you did C and then C+E it would give you B+E, but that would mean doing two tests. BTW, if you think you're overweight, dont tow it. If you have a car transporter that can carry more than 750kgs - its own weight, dont tow it, you can be done for it. I cant tow our transporter empty because it can carry 2600kgs, I'd be booked even if it was empty. The current police/VOSA policy is to pull all trailers that dont look properly loaded, regardless of your license. If they cant find anything wrong with the trailer afterall, they start inspecting your vehicle. Rule of thumb, if you havent got cat E entitlement -dont tow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 My apologies, i've just checked and you cant do C+E (Class 1 HGV) until you hold a cat C (Class 2) licence, so either way your going to have to do two tests, and i presume doing a B+E test for the car and trailer and a C1 test for the 7.5T is going to be much cheaper than doing C then C+E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Rogers Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I did my B+E two years ago using a family run business in Portsmouth. Its well worth doing, but be aware they expect a high standard of driving. Managed to pass with only two minors first time though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mc Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 Thanks for the quick responses. If i can't do a C+E straight away then it sounds like its not worth it. I was hoping to avoid extra tests but looks unlikely. I'll probably just bite the bullet and do the normal B+E first, i know i can tow perfectly well and am very good at reversing but after driving for a few years no doubt i need a refresher to get to test standard. Another quick question, when reversing with a trailer do you have to use the wing mirrors only or can you hang your head out the window as i find it much easier? Cheers, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Rogers Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Thanks for the quick responses. If i can't do a C+E straight away then it sounds like its not worth it. I was hoping to avoid extra tests but looks unlikely. I'll probably just bite the bullet and do the normal B+E first, i know i can tow perfectly well and am very good at reversing but after driving for a few years no doubt i need a refresher to get to test standard. Another quick question, when reversing with a trailer do you have to use the wing mirrors only or can you hang your head out the window as i find it much easier? Cheers, Paul I stuck my head out of the window on my test, examiner had no dramas with it Other thing you could consider is doing D1 and then D1+E which will upgrade you to B+E too? Depends if you ever have to drive minibuses. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbadger Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 This page explains which categories you need to do which test, which tests upgrade lower licences etc. DVLA Basically, to get the 7.5T plus trailer, you'd need to do C1, then C1+E, which would upgrade your B to B+E. Since the can of worms is open, does anybody actually know anybody, or has themselves, been booked for driving without a licence while towing 750kg+ on a B licence (i.e. passed post 1997)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Rogers Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Since the can of worms is open, does anybody actually know anybody, or has themselves, been booked for driving without a licence while towing 750kg+ on a B licence (i.e. passed post 1997)? I saw a traffic cops program where a woman got booked for it, Driving with incorect license and obviously no insurance as she didnt have a proper license to tow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinny Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 my mate got a tug last week for towing not in accordance to his licence hes looking a t least 6 points and a fine but hes waiting for his court appearance so yes you will get done if caught and i suppose your insurance would be invalid,chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 There is a way you can tow a trailer with a MAM of more than 750kgs with just a B license, but I think it depends on the trailer MAM being less than half of your vehicle's GVW etc. I can't recall the exact figure I'm afraid. A B+E is something I will hopefully be doing next year, gonna be expensive but cheaper than the hassle being pulled for it would cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I was pulled over a few months ago and the cops had a portable weighing scales type thing to check the weigh of the loaded trailer, (mine was ok) and I had the licence to pull the weight, however what the cop said that here (Ireland) if you do not hold or have held a licence for the catagory then there is no insurance cover as well, so points for no licence, and for no insurance............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5 power Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 hi On a catergory B license you can tow a trailer as long as the maximum admissible mass(MAM)of the trailer doesn't exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle and the MAM of the vehicle and the trailer doesn't exceed 3500kg. For example a hard top 90 can tow a trailer up to 1100kg, the MAM is 2400kg so 3500 - 2400 = 1100kg and the unladen weight is 1750kg meaning it is legal. But do check your insurance will cover this. HTH matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 And its important to note that when using the above formula ^ You need to base it on the MAM of the trailer not its actual weight. So in the above example, you can tow 1100kg, but hitch up a car transporter with a plated weight of 2T and its illegal, even if the trailer is empty, and weighs less than 1100kg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Tonkin Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Aragorn is completely correct. It is the MAM of the trailer that is important. I find it very frustrating that a trailer plated at 1600kg and designed to be towed by young drivers (http://www.degraafftrailers.co.uk/light-weight-rowing-boat-trailers.htm as an example) I could tow with a car with a kerb weight between 1600 and 1900 but I can now not with my 90 which is much safer for doing the job. Any recommendations on an instructor with car/trailer in the west midlands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cactus Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 There's a very good driving school on Canvey..... RSM....Sorry don't know their number! Highly recommended, I've put 4 members of staff through there, all passed first time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoatBuoy Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Another quick question, when reversing with a trailer do you have to use the wing mirrors only or can you hang your head out the window as i find it much easier? Cheers, Paul Work sponsored me through my B+E over a year ago or so. I did a solid two day course then took the test two days later. Used a 110 & twinaxle 10ft box van and passed first time. As has been said, you are expected to drive at the standard of the normal car license throughout the test, as well as not clippping a kerb with the trailer, as you would expect. You really need to spend a little time with an instructor, so so you do thing like the coupling/uncoulping in the very strict correct manner. I was fortunate, and had a great examiner, who was realistic, and not too harsh. I hung my head out the window for the reverse 'h' bit and that was fine, aslong as you remember to check the other side frequently. Don't care what any trucker says, it is by far the easiest way if you are reversing to the right. With regard to mirrors, since you are towing a box trailer, you need a set of caravan mirrors set up for the instructor/examiner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 You must also have a rear view mirror for the examiner apparently, although since you have to use a box trailer the same width as the body of the vehicle and the same height, i cant understand this one. The width and height of the trailer body is so that it fully obscures vision through the rear window and hence the rear view mirror too thus requiring the driver to have to rely on door or wing mirrors. However, the examiner still needs to be able to see to the rear of the vehicle and so a mirror for the examiner is required. From what I gather, I think the mirror would be positioned so that the examiner can see the side view as offered by a door or wing mirror. At least, that is what a driving instructor told me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I have been booked for being an overweight trailer, its an offence called "driving other than in accordance with a licence", the code for it varies and its utter tripe to be honest because its all on theoretical weight, NOT real weight. It does NOT affect insurance, the plod was happy my insurance was valid despite the above offence, trailers dont really have any effect on it and it certainly doesn tbecome invalid and mean you get booked for that too! Either way, i wrote a very strongly worded letter to the somerset police and got my endoresable offence overturned in about 3 weeks from start to finish. They will still try it on, every time but its utter carp and the law really needs to be changed and updated to cover ACTUAL weight, not some plated carp cos at the end of the day i could have 2 plates for my trailer, a light one for when empty and a proper one for when full - nothing wrong with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Smo: as i pointed out above, if you dont have +E, it doesnt matter the actual weight of the trailer, it goes on the plated weight of the trailer. Its probably done that way because while a copper can look at the plates, he doesnt have a portable weighbridge with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Some do, and i have heard of people being taken to weighbridges... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Smo: as i pointed out above, if you dont have +E, it doesnt matter the actual weight of the trailer, it goes on the plated weight of the trailer. Its probably done that way because while a copper can look at the plates, he doesnt have a portable weighbridge with him. Well aware of this, hence my comment about 2 plates.... Perhaps the police should keep to tangiable offences they can really deal with and leave weight related offecnes to VOSA who will take you to a weighbridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Your still driving outwith your licence, whether your pulling a 3T trailer without +E or driving a 7.5T lorry without C1 or a motorbike without the appropriate bike licence.... Personally i think the seperate +E test is a good thing, unfortunately the exemption that allows you to pull "Some" trailers as detailed above, seems mainly aimed at caravan owners looking at the weights involved, and caravan owners can often be bloody hopeless pulling their van. I understand your a bit miffed that you got pulled, but tbh i think you should be thanking your lucky stars that they let you off with it and your licence isnt now endorsed with that offence, no doubt causing you silly insurance for the next 5 years. Its YOUR responsibility to ensure what your driving is legal, and in the case you mention above, it seems you were illegally pulling a trailer. You either knew this and thaught you'd blag it anyway, or you hadnt done the proper research before pulling the trailer, but ignorance is no defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Tonkin Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 SMO has raised a point I have been thinking about for a while. Can I re-plate a trailer to 1100kg to allow me to tow it? Assuming I do not exceed this weight? I am thinking specifically of a Sankey which is just too heavy for a B license behind a 90 hardtop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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