JST Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Things have not been going very well the last 3 days!! I changed the timing belt on Friday. It went together a dream and started up first turn of the key, no cranking, ran smoothly. excellent, job well done i think! go for a test drive, all is well, pulls as it should no smoke drives same as it has always driven. fine at idle. starts perfectly hot or cold. Saturday, took the truck out for a day, again started and ran like a dream, parked it up in the nice weather we were having for 8 hrs or so. Got in the truck to come home - started first turn of the key - but very lumpy and clouds of white smoke. things are not well, touch of gas, no load, and it sounds like its missing a bit. It cleared after 20-30s or so and ran perfectly again. drove it home no problems drove as it always has and no smoke. did a couple of start stops - no smoke on startup. Left it in the garage for 2hrs, went back to it, started it - fine, no problems and no smoke. Maybe it was water that had got in the snorkel me thinks. This morning, went to start it in the garage - same symptoms as Sat evening, clouds of white smoke, very lumpy idle etc and cleared after 30s or so. So my thoughts were check the snorkel trunking for water - none present and symptoms are the same with the filter removed. Check fuel filter for water in filter - again none there. So timing cover off and check all that - all as it should be. belt removed and refitted along with second opinion (white90) all back together - issue still remains on cold startup - clouds of white smoke and lumpy idle, also sounds like its missing when accelerating, no load, until it clears. The white smoke quickly fills the garage so i have to go outside to stop my eyes streaming and it took a while to clear from the exhuast (2mins) - thoughts are its unburnt fuel rather than coolant due to smell of smoke. Take it for a spin, smoke soon clears, it drives as it always has with respect to power/speed etc and no smoke. turn it off and restart - no smoke. So thoughts are, after picking various peoples brains - DJW, Ciderman, White90 timing is likely to be OK as its been checked, plus the problem would always be present - rough idle, poor performance, plus likely poor starting, It always starts straight away no cranking, performance and idle are good after smoke has cleared from exhaust. leaky fuel injector - which is why smoke is present over time of vehicle standing. Faulty glow plug head gasket - haven't had a chance to see if she is using any coolant yet coincidence or can you get these symptoms if the timing was out? so thoughts please? The problem did not exist prior to the belt change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 What about glowplugs? Could you have accidentally disconnected them? I think they stay on for the first 30 seconds or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 they are certainly not disconnect, but whether they all work or not i dont know current aspiration is to pull the glow plugs and check they work, when the truck is cold and also see if they have any evidence on them of a leaking injector. apart from that i am stuck for ideas really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I'm having precisely the same prob with my Isuzu conversion - I've narrowed it down to either a slight air leak on the fuel line from the tank to the injectors, somewhere, or timing is slightly out. From stone cold it's lumpy as hell and loads of white smoke, once it's 'caught' though, after a 30secs its Aok and pulls like a train, smoking stops. If I give it three/four cycles on the glow plugs though it starts much, much better, almost no smoke, and the lumpiness goes so I reckon it's down to timing. I have tried bleeding the fuel lines up to the injectors before starting but that didn't seem to make much difference. these engines shouldn't really need glowplugs to start (haven't had them connected on my 90 in two years, starts first click even in ice) so there will be an underlying problem even if this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general-confusion Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I run a tgv and my glow plugs aren't even wired up !! She starts immediately and with no smoke of any colour ; But my engine is very new maybe 200 hours on it (comp truck so speedo reading pointless but dashboard logs engine hours) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Sounds like injectors to me just as a general observation on the symptoms - I've never seen a TGV but assume it is much the same technology as a Tdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Not at all familiar with a TGV, but just googled it and looking at some picture's its got a lot of similar parts to your average TDi, I'd agreed with Eightpot, sounds like a fuel feed problem, I've got similar symptoms on my 200Tdi Disco engine, I've got a suspicion its the lift pump on my unit, that or water/air in the fuel. What kind of fuel delivery does a TGV have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 or timing is slightly out. So if the timing was out which bit? and why does it stop when warm or start warm no problem? Not meant to be a criticism just a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 usually cam is not quite in the right place or crank is retarded slightly when belt it pulled tight. Could be a leaky injector, or air in fuel as already mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Well have pulled the cover again this am, and am going to try the cam advanced and retarded one tooth and see what odds that makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I wouldn’t have thought it was pump timing due to the fault being intermittent .......... However, it would pay just to check the timing marks all line up ....... OK for peace of mind and eliminate that area....... Sounds like a dribbly injector to me ......... but it would be highly coincidental with the timing belt change........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderman Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I witnessed the fault on sat, At first we thought water inhalation as it was parked all day with the rain lashing down on the exposed air filter , It was very lumpy at first with a lot of white smoke but soon cleared without any performance or running issues. So it would seem that this would illiminate any mis-timed issues ,But advised checking the timing once more to be 100% as miss timed engines will smoke but usualy not intermitantly as Ian has confirmed . So a weak injector was suggested dribbling into the bore when switched off for a while ,One sure way of testing is to whip em out and look for dampness on the nozzle and get them tested . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 well it would appear to be the timing after all. despite using a proper timing pin in the FIP there is a small amount of movement when the FIP is locked to the rear timing case, not alot - a midges foreskin worth was the description used! so with the 3 pulley bolts undone the FIP was rotated the aforemention amount and now she runs sweet well sort of now the belt is (its was before) riding towards the timing cover and scuffing on the bottom crank pulley shoulders. so a new thread now on which is the correct timing kit!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 The distance between the valley of one tooth on the belt and another is 6mm, so mis-alignment of the crank and cam sprockets would be evident. One tooth retarded and the engine will white smoke until it's hot, then be gutless afterwards. The engine will be hard to start from cold, but will start on a tow with no problems at all. One tooth advanced and the engine will start after a couple of goes, but will sound like an old sewing machine when running - no smoke, but unresponsive on the throttle. Once the belt is fitted, turn the crank twice in the normal direction of rotation - that is, clockwise. Set the crank, check the cam, check the inj pump marks. Cam and crank are critical - they must always match up. The inj pump is almost infinitely udjustable to match the mechanical side of the timing. Crank and can timing are by far the most important part of the timing set up. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 One tooth retarded and the engine will white smoke until it's hot, then be gutless afterwards. The engine will be hard to start from cold, but will start on a tow with no problems at all. One tooth advanced and the engine will start after a couple of goes, but will sound like an old sewing machine when running - no smoke, but unresponsive on the throttle. Les. this is why i thought it wasnt the timing, she starts straight away just tonnes of white smoke when cold. she also drove well with no problems! But it was the FIP and a minimal amount too, similar to the width of a bit of dust on the timing locking pin in the FIP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 this is why i thought it wasnt the timing, she starts straight away just tonnes of white smoke when cold. she also drove well with no problems! But it was the FIP and a minimal amount too, similar to the width of a bit of dust on the timing locking pin in the FIP! this was with the old belt that walked on the sprockets, i have since tried it with a new belt and cant get the timing right (even resorting back to the old belt she still isin't right!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobyone Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 is there any backlash on the cogs which have woodruff keys, or keyways? maybe at the fuel injection pump perhaps. the cam and crank should be bang on, and if the fip does not line up too, well it would suggest one of the cogs/pulley's is not lined up correctly. not sure on these engines as never worked on one, but that would be where i start. perhaps the fip has play in it? once it is started after 300 seconds, perhaps the inertia of the crank rotation puts the backlash to the rear so minimising it. you could confirm this by once it no longer smokes loads, by rotating the engine backwards quite a few complete rotations and then starting the engine again. if it is backlash/play in any of the gears then it will of course reappear. other than that i am at a loss. good luck richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.