Advice on my setup. Suspension, Shocks and Springs

[tweetyduck]

Neil,

As your new shocks are +50mm I would suggest (regardless of which front springs you use) you invest in a pair of these in +2" guise from Gwyn Lewis.

Front shock mounts

Pete

Now that might be exactly what i need............Thanks vm.

[FridgeFreezer]

knowing actual facts you can address actual issues.

[honitonhobbit]

"Adding longer springs does not alter the distance between the top of the turret and the top of the axle when the bump stop is touching it so will not stop the shock from bottoming out"

Righto, there are three ways to extend springs, more metal ie more coils, thicker metal; or a mixture of both

option a and option c will 'bind' prior to bottoming out unless massively short or shock hugely too long. Option is for big heavy duty units that simply won't bottom out unless forced by massive articulation or by 'driving like a pratt'

Are your shocks the Terrafirma HD Big Bore expedition shocks?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

There is an element of a lack of it maybe so far on this thread

Nige

[honitonhobbit]

[tweetyduck]

"Adding longer springs does not alter the distance between the top of the turret and the top of the axle when the bump stop is touching it so will not stop the shock from bottoming out"

Righto, there are three ways to extend springs, more metal ie more coils, thicker metal; or a mixture of both

option a and option c will 'bind' prior to bottoming out unless massively short or shock hugely too long. Option is for big heavy duty units that simply won't bottom out unless forced by massive articulation or by 'driving like a pratt'

Are your shocks the Terrafirma HD Big Bore expedition shocks?

Yes. Terrafirma HD Big Bore expedition shocks.

[LR90]

Why did you choose HD Big Bore?

[tweetyduck]

Why did you choose HD Big Bore?

Price vs Suitabilty. based on some solid recomedations. Price won BTW as they are not expensive compared to OME and the like.

I also thought they looked strong enough to withstand some punishment but thats based on nothing other than the mechanical size. They are also designed specifcally for what i'm doing and the reputation of Terrafirma is growing.

I don't really want to get into the "you should have" conversation as its never beneficial but i don't mind explaining my madness........

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Well,

I think you should have gone for ...

Ah

Never mind

Nige

[nicks90]

instead of mucking about - get your vehicle on somewhere level and measure the distance between the bumpstop and bump pad on the axle. then measure the length of the shock and subtract the 2. If that figure is less than the closed length of your shock - its potentially bottoming out.

as others have said, spring lift wont help you unless you make an extremely poor spring choice that causes spring bind (in which case you risk damaging the spring turrets) or they're so stupidly stiff you cannot fully compress them unless the moon falls on your bonnet. Either way its a bad choice to make.

I have +2" procomps on the front of my 90 and they do not bottom out using standard shock towers and bumpstops. I tested this when i got them by losely fitting them without the spring and jacking it up to the bumpstop and checking clearances. I still had just under an inch which i consider to be my "bumpstop compression tolerance" for if i do smack something hard enough to hit the bumpstop and compress it at bit.

So unless there is a vast difference in length spec between a +2" procomp and +50mm terrafirma, i think the shock should be in the clear.

[tweetyduck]

Thanks Nicks.

This is exactly what i'm going to do today (hopefully if i get time !)

[Henry Webster]

Standard rubber bumpstops do compress a surprising amount, so you need to take that into consideration.

[tweetyduck]

Thanks. Will report back with measurements and make allowance for the rubber.

[honitonhobbit]

Just out of interest who or what was "based on some solid recomedations", I'd just like to know who classes as 'solid' these days

They are actually very good shocks, especially for the money. Not as good as OME but then OME are stupid money here in the UK anmd I can't see Arbil dropping the wholsale price

As you say, you have the shocks so no point in folk saying you should have....

I'm interested to know what your findings are

If you need some heavier duty rear springs I can let you have a set of Britpart Yellow's in standard height and rated to 330ft/lbs - Brand new and your for the P&P and a donation to Project Mobility

[tweetyduck]

I've got one side off again.

I disconnected the bottom of the shock and pushed it up to its closed minimum and the gap left from the bottom of the shock rubber down the the spring seat is smaller than the gap between the bump and stop. So that seems conclusive and it reads to me like the shocks are bottoming.

Looks like i need some taller turrets which should fix the issue. What do you all reckon? Taller turrets be OK for my trip? They won't get capped into the Engine bay so the wheel arch will be open. Is this bad? Any thoughts at all will be greatfully received.

Now i have this niggling question, what about the rears...... Were these shocks a good choice....no they damn well wern't.

@hobbit

thanks for the offer. My rears are already 330 so they should be OK. Its the fronts i need. I might go for med duty +100kg and see what happens. Damn expensive the trial and error stuff.

[FridgeFreezer]

Damn expensive the trial and error stuff.

That's why tape measures, weighing scales, and maths were invented

Also the spring calculator on Trev's website, and the tech archive

No problem having the rubber caps off the inner wings, the engine bay isn't exactly hermetically sealed anyway.

[tweetyduck]

Trev's website ?

forget that. googled it.

[honitonhobbit]

Try Adrian at TOR4x4 for a price on springs info@tor4x4.co.uk

As for expensive mistakes - yeah you probably did but anyone who tells you they haven't made a mistake is a liar. It's taken me well over 25 years to get where I want to be.

The Allmakes turrets are good and well priced - again try Tor4x4; or you could give Gwynn Lewis a bell

Once it's set up right the shocks should do the job just nicely

I could make a nice living on the stuff I 'repair' for people who have been given cr*p advice by people who are supposedly in the know. Instead I get the odd drink bought for me and a nice warm feeling for being nice

[tweetyduck]

I'm going to send the missus out to get me some 90 rears for the front from the local place (NRC9448/9). So i should be able to get them sorted this week. So that should mean the front is 225lb/inch which is about the same as the OME +110kg springs. They may have some turrets in and then i'll not need extended bumps on the front. I hope thats it sorted

As for the back i really need to check that out at the same time and its likely that i'll need extended bumps for that if the length is too much. Not had the back bottom out but then again its empty at the moment. Once i've filled it up i need to get the weighbridge and revisit the rear.

BTW do they charge you at the public weighbridges. I've never used one before?

I should hopefull be back in this thread with some positive news by the weekend.

[tweetyduck]

I've put on new HD springs NRC9448 (drivers) and NRC9449 (pass) along with isolators RBC100111 on the top and ANR2938 bottom.

Now my ride is lop sided ? Its about 3 cm out. Whats the problem ? The drivers side is higher than the pass.

(yes the springs are the correct way round drivers to pass)

[Retroanaconda]

Isn't it supposed to be like that? So when the driver gets in the vehicle is level?

My 90 certainly is.

[tweetyduck]

Really? but 3cm is a lot.

I'm not that fat !

I've been for a drive and bounced it down the lane. Certainly not bottoming but i reccon it could/would if i really tried. I think i might get those +2 turrets. hmmmm.

The benefit of the +2 is my hoses won't need changing and there will be no possibility of bottoming the shocks. However the rear setup still needs to be looked at.

[western]

can't see why you think you need both sets of isolators on each side of the springs, a 3cm side to side difference is a lot,

the drivers side springs are purposely longer, so the vehicle rides level with the driver onboard.

IIRC LR have ditched this idea on the Td5 vehicle & used the same springs on both side of each axle.

[tweetyduck]

One of the overlanding lot recomended the isolators as a "good idea" so i just thought for the price i'd get them. They make the ride over corrugations a little less annoying evidently as they provide a little more attenuation of the battering they produce.

I agree 3cm is a lot but can't figure out whats the problem. Looks like it must just be the springs being slightly different. What do you think.....? I don't suppose flipping them over or spinning them makes any difference?

[western]

Driver side spring is physicaly longer, so swapping them won't make much if any difference, nieher will flipping it over, it'll still be the same, you could just live with the RBC isolators & remove the others.