Advice on my setup. Suspension, Shocks and Springs

[tweetyduck]

I have these Standard Genuine Springs on the front of my 110.

NRC8044

NRC8045

I've just fitted a rather heavy Bull Bar and a Winch.

The Front Shocks are Terrafirma Big Bore Expedition and they only come in +50mm.

The Turrets and Bump Stops are Standard.

I've been for a drive today down a local lane with some pretty rough parts. Both sides seem to be bottoming out. I reccon its the shocks bottoming rather than the bumps although i may be wrong.

The fitted Terrafima shocks are 590mm fully open and 355mm fully closed. The new closed length is longer then ones removed as they were 330mm

What should I change ?

[tacr2man]

Measure to see if there is 350mm between the top of the turret and the bottom shock mount if there is not then you need to change the shocks before you break something

[tweetyduck]

I'm confused with what you have said. Of course theres 350mm between the top of the turret and the bottom mount as theres a shock in the gap thats 355mm long and its extended a bit.

Surely the thing to do would be to measure the gap between bump and rubber and figure out if the shock is extended longer than that. In which case its OK. If the shock isn't extended that much then the shock hits its minimum first and thats bad.

I reccon i need some HD springs or some slightly longer. Well thats my thoughts at the moment.

[western]

if I had stayed with LR springs, reckon I would have these on the front

NRC9448

D110 HD, D130

Front drivers side

15.31

225

8

blue/red

NRC9449

D110 HD, D130

Front passenger side

14.80

225

8

yellow/white

& fitted these at the rear

NRC6904**

110 HD

Rear passenger side

15.55

330

8

red/green

NRC6389**

110 HD

Rear driver side

16.02

330

8

red/red

my 110 has a heavy Husny winch & bumper up front & upto 400kgs of motorsport recovery kit in the back, to preserve axle travel & load carrying upto Max gross & train weight I went to O.M.E. Springs all round the fronts can easily carry a constant 110kgs [winch/bumper] 751

All V8

Front

Heavy Duty - 50 to 110 kg extra weight

15.3

14.9

230

16

& rears a constant load of 300kgs

755

D110

Rear

Heavy Duty - 300 kg constant load

17.1

17.1

280??

19

both will still handle the vehicle/trailer & max gross train weight 7 give a good ride.

[tweetyduck]

Thanks that was what i was thinking.

I already have HD Red Greens on the rear on both sides. If i went for the HD fronts (i.e the standard 90 rears) they have 225 per inch vs your 230 per inch so near enough.

Do you think that would give a bit of a lift ? and then fit some extended stops on the front if there is such a thing? I want the bump to hit before the shock, surely ?

[western]

I haven't bothered with extended bump stops, with my standard ones the shocks don't bottom in either direction & the axles don't touch anywhere except the bumpstops.

the HD springs will probably lift the front about a inch or 2,.

from the floor to bottom of flexi arch above wheel/hub centre mine sits 1 inch less at the front than the rear on level ground.

[tweetyduck]

Thanks Western. I'm concerned as the shocks are +50mm. I really need the bump to hit before the shock.

How do people with 2 inch lifts stop the shock bottoming about before the bump hits. Is it as simple as extended bump stops?

Do you have extended shocks or standard length ?

Do you have extended hoses ?

Sorry its a lot of questions....schools days again.

p.s whats the "flex arch" ?

[western]

Do you have extended shocks or standard length ? mine are standard LR items

Do you have extended hoses ? Yes, Goodridge stainless braided IIRC

p.s whats the "flex arch" ? it's the flared arch above the wheel/tyre

[tweetyduck]

So i still have the question. How do i compensate for having to run the +50mm shocks with a closed length longer that the standard ?

Fit the HD springs and gain some lift, fit longer hoses and fit some extended bumps ? Is that the way forward ?

I don't really want to run +50 springs. Sandard length HD should give me a bit of lift, shouldn't they?

thanks for the help. I know i'm a pain.

[Range Rover Blues]

On a RRC you can fit plus 2" shocks and still have about half and inch of clearence on the shocks when you hit the bump stops, I don't know how different the Defender is. On an EAS rangie it's easy to check of course which is how I checked it.

you can get plus 1 1/2" bump stops in poly on e-bay or make some spacers from box section.

If you lift using coil spacers be carful you don't become coil-bound when it bottoms out. A decnt branded shocker will have some form of bump stop built in but don't rely on it for long.

[Aragorn]

The measurement you want to be comparing, is the distance between the axle and bump stop, vs the amount of travel left in the shock.

Bear in mind also that the rubber will deform to some extent.

[tweetyduck]

Thanks all.

What i need to check (as you say) is the Axle to Bump stop and then measure the shocks vs the measurements i took before fitting. I should be able to work out how far my bumps are off.

I don't reccon its much so those slightly extended stops off Ebay might be the ticket. I'm still going to buy those 90 rear springs though so i reccon i'll have a pair of genuine STDs for sale as i don't think they can cut it. I'm hoping the standard length hoses will be OK once i get the springs on.

I'd never have guessed it would be this difficult.........

[tweetyduck]

Can you get slightly taller Turrets as this combined with slightly better (std lenght) springs and the longer shocks will mean i don't lose articulation?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

What you have fitted are std 110 fronts white/white and yellow / yellow

These are w/w 15.13 long 210 lbs and y/y 14.49 210 lbs

So,If you have gone and added a lump of weight at the front two things happen

You might find the gap between bump stop and axle top chabnges - it might not, but

what will happen is that going over bumps when the front end moves there is more weight coming down,

and irrespective of the shockers fitted the likleyhood is if the weight increase is outside the

limits of the springs abilities / speed and force of movement then yes the font end will botom out

In fact the above can be done on a std 110 with enough speed.

So,

you have to increase either or both preferably lbs and length, increase the length too much and

pundage the same will end up wih lift, at the moment you have to look at how the 110 is siting

FULLY LADEN, which may include measuring front rear from body cpapping to gound etc, is it already nose up ?

or tail up and bu how much ?

rears impact of choices for the front / possiblities are reduced, springs need to be balnaced and compliment front

and rear axle / body weights

IMHO all LRs should be a tad tail up when fully loaded, makes for clearer driving off road if you

can "Look Down" at the bonnet, rather than peer upwards, if its nose high

Faffing about with shocks and bump stop detail wikll not sort out fundementally wrong poundages / lengths

you ahve to get the basis right 1st

also you say "I already have HD Red Greens on the rear on both sides" is not going to help, the springs

you ahve are handed (not same each side) and one side you have is 15.55 / 330 lbs, the other should be

16.02 inchs / 330 lbs, which means you have lost near 1/2 correction of handed springs

this can be corrected, but as is will simply cause other issues, and as Ralphy has siad the fronts are too soft,

esp as you have HD rear lopsided, and soft fronts. imho your prob need to buy 1 x rear to correct then maybe NRC9463 & NRC9462

but thats a guess at the mo

To do this really properly take the 110 LOADED to a public weighbridge, weigh the whole truck,

then front end only and then rear end only

Post up the info then we can have a lookie at it

Nige

[FridgeFreezer]

Extended bump-stops are a cheat, and a poor one at that as bump-stops can and do fully compress if you hit something hard enough.

Your shocks should not be acting as the limiting factor, they won't like it, on an expedition truck it's a recipe for a lot of breakages.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

^^^

Spot on

Nige

[ajh]

If the soft ride is your goal and cost isn't a concern you could fit a set of Light Racing Jounce Shocks or similar active bump stop which will give a much more forgiving end of travel.

If you don't want to alter the geometry I'd fit some slightly heavier front springs and if the shock/tower combo still doesn't work, get some really tall towers and get someone (qualified) to cut/re-weld them to the appropriate length for you.

[honitonhobbit]

I run red/red both sides but am swapping to TD5 rears as they are nicley progressive. I have OME plus 5" shocks on Gwyn Lewis three way mounts, I also use D2 Bump stops and SuperPro bushes with HOFS trailing arms. The 110 standard rear prop won't bind with that rear set up. On the front I have standard length Terrafirmas (stiffer than the OME's and about 1" longer than standard) with NTC8572 (Disco Rear HD)and isolators, standard narrow radius arms and SuperPro's. This allows me about half an inch lift, proper ar$e up stance, decent off road articulation, no bump stop cheapies and a top road drive. The vehicle carries less than Ralph's but is always about 150Kgs up in the rear and it tows medium loads. On the front is a medium weight winch mount/standard bumper and a TDS Goldfish XL+. I've also got all the sprung weight of the armour underneath. I'm swapping to TD5 springs becuase I want to try the progressive set up as it works well on the front

[ajh]

Given the option progressive springs are always the right choice for the street (motorcyclists learned this a long time ago as progressive coil upgrades are one of the most common if not the most common suspension upgrade for bikes), the question so far has been if any of them are good quality or if they're going to sag in a few thousand kilometers. Please do report back

[tweetyduck]

The red green option on the rear was deliberate and its not lop sided at all. In fact its perfectly level last time i checked. I'm going to go out with a tape next chance i get and measure everything and report here. The way its loaded was one reason for this. It was full of blocks at the beginning to test the ride with some load in. The back seems fine IMHO at the moment. I do want to fit some disco isolators thought and just maybe helpers but the isolators are a cert.

The front definately needs stronger springs but even then thats not going to stop the longer shocks bottoming before the bump hits. I still need to confirm this is the case with some more measuring. So to compensate for longer shocks i will probably need some taller turrets.

I really appreciate the advice here guys as this is really important. My shocks (possibly) bottoming is really bad if thats whats happening. So i think i need to get some measuring done and decide if the shocks are bottoming. If they are no matter what spring i fit they could still bottom out so that needs sorting first.

The only thing i can think of is remove the shocks, change the bump stops or fit taller turrets ?

[honitonhobbit]

You will need to fit taller springs to stop the shocks bottoming out

Why did you fit longer shocks on standard spring lengths - better to change the shocks for the right length

[tweetyduck]

The shocks i wanted are only available in +50mm. They are HD Big Bore Expedition shocks.

Adding longer springs does not alter the distance between the top of the turret and the top of the axle when the bump stop is touching it so will not stop the shock from bottoming out. Am i missing something here? I know i need stronger springs but adding longer springs doesn't do anything to these minimum distances. I'm confused

[ajh]

You need to determine if they're actually bottoming out or not, put a zip tie around the shaft then drive over something, it will slide up to indicate the most compression you experienced on that run. Then knowing actual facts you can address actual issues.

[Pete Attryde]

Neil,

As your new shocks are +50mm I would suggest (regardless of which front springs you use) you invest in a pair of these in +2" guise from Gwyn Lewis.

Front shock mounts

Pete

Edited October 18, 2010 by Pete Attryde

[tweetyduck]

Good idea ajh.

Since i know the fully closed length and the fully open i can also measure a couple of things a work out if it could bottom out. I shall do that tomorrow and report back. I'm nearly sure its not the bumps hitting as i put blob of paint on the bump and it didn't get squished but i still felt the bottoming. I also don;t really want to "go for it" as i don't want to break my new shocks.

I need someone/something very heavy to sit on my front bumper. LOL.

thanks again all. Don't give up on me yet, i have lots more stupid questions.