Engine change pros and cons

[Jimmy Two-Jacks]

I have been sort of been toying with the idea of changing the engine in my 90 at some point in the future. I currently have a 200tdi (came from a defender not a disco) in an old 90 and wondered what diesel engines fitted with a conversion kit but withought major surgery and peoples thoughts on donor engines vs oem engines, pros and cons that sort of thing.

[stuck]

4.6 V8

I'll get my coat...

[Jimmy Two-Jacks]

4.6 V8

I'll get my coat...

Bloody Hell!!! maybe a bit big as Oxford doesnt have its own oil fields

[western]

keep the 200tdi, with regular oil/filter changes it'll go for years, mines 16 years old now with a big total mileage.

[stuck]

True but once you've driven one you won't care!

Sell the wife / partner, kids, budgie or your spare body parts if you have to.

You could even walk 4 days a week (perish the thought)

[Jimmy Two-Jacks]

Cheers Ralph..been a while, you can tell the spring is on its way when minds turn to all things land rover

[Jimmy Two-Jacks]

True but once you've driven one you won't care!

Sell the wife / partner, kids, budgie or your spare body parts if you have to.

You could even walk 4 days a week (perish the thought)

Out of interest what would that be from? Big Nissan perhaps?

[western]

Cheers Ralph..been a while, you can tell the spring is on its way when minds turn to all things land rover

you know it makes sense, with all the work you've done so far, it's about time you added so miles to it & used it, instead of thinking of ways to spend more cash another engine won't be cheap & JAP engine spares aren't cheap either.

[western]

Out of interest what would that be from? Big Nissan perhaps?

4.6 V8 could come from a 2nd generation RR.

[Jimmy Two-Jacks]

you know it makes sense, with all the work you've done so far, it's about time you added so miles to it & used it, instead of thinking of ways to spend more cash another engine won't be cheap & JAP engine spares aren't cheap either.

True... It will be nice to spend time in it rather than underneath it!

Someone asked me the other day if it was a piece of art instalation on the drive....

[western]

True... It will be nice to spend time in it rather than underneath it!

Someone asked me the other day if it was a piece of art instalation on the drive....

at least they didn't call it 'a pile of scrap'

[Tanuki]

If you're putting in effort on an engine-upgrade and want to keep it Land-Rover with all-off-the-shelf parts, there's only one path - go TD5.

All the parts are available off the shelf. It's a far better, modern free-revving Diesel engine, starts first-time-every-time, will let you bypass the London Inner-city "Low-emission-zone" penalty-taxes stuff, and has rather significant tuning-potential.

30MPG if you're careful, 25MPG if you're not careful, 17MPG when you're out hunting BMWs.

[rusty_wingnut]

Td5 hasn't a patch on a Jap engine. My mate has a big Mazda in his 110 and it's got ridiculous levels of grunt, on par with a V8 but without the revvyness. Hauls a plant trailer with a 101 no problems @ 70mph uphill and downdale.

If you want all out stump pulling grunt for hauling big loads Jap makes sense, V8 for a weekend toy, or a Tdi/Td5 for a daily driver that doesn't tow.

[pete3000]

If you're putting in effort on an engine-upgrade and want to keep it Land-Rover with all-off-the-shelf parts, there's only one path - go TD5.

You haven't seen the TDV6 transplant then? you wouldn't need to do it again for a bit until someone does a kit for the TDV8 twin turbo lion engine. Have a look on here somewhere TDV6 was shown recently, maybe in int forum or tools fab.

[nicks90]

/\/\/\

but thats quite a spendy conversion - although i would imagine it to be bloomin lovely!

you havent said what you want the vehicle to do and available £, so its a bit hard to really give advice other than stating your own personal favourite!

for daily drive and a bit of playing, i dont think you can go far wrong with a td5. Not horrendously expensive and lots of people have done it, so the knowledge is out there. Slight tweaks can give you up to 170bhp reliably as well. Although i think if i had a desperate urge for a td5 defender, i would sell my tdi 90 and put some money in (what you would spend on converting the engine) and just buy a factory made td5 90.

If you want an utter stump puller, i would be tempted with the 4.2 turbo diesel from a nissan patrol. Epic engine!

or if you can find one - a cummins 4bt. Can be tuned to silly power outputs

or go V8 and empty your wallet on fuel for it.

[ToyRoverlander]

Get an accident damaged 80series Cruiser and rip the whole drivetrain out . a nice powerfull 4.2 (24V if later model) turbo diesel, auto or manual and decent axles, with electric diff-locks and way better brakes too!

[Soren Frimodt]

I honestly can't see why anyone would want to get rid of a 200TDi? Sure if you don't like diesels then alright. But in my book it's the best dieseasel ever. Once you tweak the pump nothing compares to it. TD5's have no grunt in idle, look at the clutch pedal the wrong way and it'll stall on you. and then cost a bazzilion in parts (like Japs). 300TDi's are a fair bet, but I hate those squeeking serpentine belts, and then there's the issue with the misaligning timing belts. Is your 200TDi standard or tweaked? If I were you I'd do this first and feel the amazing difference, possible put on a Disco pump to get a few more RPM's and a larger intercooler and turn up the boost as well. Trust me, you WILL be amazed.

[ToyRoverlander]

I honestly can't see why anyone would want to get rid of a 200TDi? Sure if you don't like diesels then alright. But in my book it's the best dieseasel ever. Once you tweak the pump nothing compares to it. TD5's have no grunt in idle, look at the clutch pedal the wrong way and it'll stall on you. and then cost a bazzilion in parts (like Japs). 300TDi's are a fair bet, but I hate those squeeking serpentine belts, and then there's the issue with the misaligning timing belts. Is your 200TDi standard or tweaked? If I were you I'd do this first and feel the amazing difference, possible put on a Disco pump to get a few more RPM's and a larger intercooler and turn up the boost as well. Trust me, you WILL be amazed.

Obviously you haven't driven a big Jap diesel before .... Tdi's suck for low end grunt for instance. My NA 3.4 got waaaay more torque down low than a Tdi. And it's quicker than a Td5 130..

The big Jap diesels (Toyota and Nissan 4.2's) especially with intercooler and the fuel turned up will eat Tdi's and Td5's for breakfast.. There's just no comparison. Even when standard they're just waaaay more powerfull.

If I where to do another engine swap I wouldn't even consider anything else. NO WAY that I would use a LR engine .

But that's just me...

[Retroanaconda]

How are the big Jap diesels on fuel?

30mpg possible?

[Soren Frimodt]

As the Americans say "there's no replacement for displacement" So of course hanging half a tonne of engine in the front with 3+ liters will give you more oomph and power. But there has to be a bit of sanity to everything, and fitting a big heavy 4,2 litre vx80 engine (which I actually have driven) in the front of a ninety, isn't sanity. They are hugely costly on fuel as well. This lightly tweaked 4,2 litre VX80 drove with a 3500kg trailer alongside a 170hp TD5 110". The yota did just above 4km/l and the td5 7km/l. And both got the job done. But it's a personal thing, but here's my opinion anyways.

[ToyRoverlander]

The big Toy diesels can be economical, if driven sensibly. Heck, I managed 10ltr/100km in my old HJ60 with indirect injected 4ltr 6cylinder diesel. My IDI 3.4 does about 12.5ltr/100km, but my 109 is a very heavy beast.

You can get 11ltr/100 out of the DI diesels, but push it hard and it will use more obviously. But it's worth it, they just have so much torque from down low! Sure a Td5 can have 170whatever hp, but it will never match the torque, especially at low rpm.

[plasticbadger]

In the marine world I've seen the later 24v Toyota 4.2 putting out about 340hp on standard engine internals, 400hp on modified internals. They both had about 525lb/ft. However the engine weighs in at nearly 400kg, so I don't think it would be sensible in a 90, even though it was fitted to short wheelbase LC 70's at one point. If we were talking a 110 that would be my choice.

I'm not a massive fan of the Td5, if you're on a budget then tuning and repair gets very expensive. The Tdi engines are soooo cheap and soooo easy to tune that it has got to be the way to go if funds are limited. If you were starting from a clean sheet I'd add the Daihatsu 2.8 turbo and Isuzu 2.8 turbo to the options list for the same reasons.

The Cummins 4BT is one I've thought about lately, easily tuned for 200hp / 300lb/ft, but still a heavy engine at 350kg.

Toyroverlander, how does the 3B fit in the Landrover? Would the 3BT fit, as that would be a good swap?

[ToyRoverlander]

Toyroverlander, how does the 3B fit in the Landrover? Would the 3BT fit, as that would be a good swap?

The 3B fits like it was always supposed to be in there! Being a 4cylinder it's compact enough, even with the recessed grille of a Series. Only 'problem' is that the exhaust sits on the right hand side of the engine which makes routing it a bit difficult.

A 13BT would be even better, but is also a lot more expensive to buy. But add a large intercooler and turn the fuel and boost up and it blows your socks off .

You'd have to use the Toy gearbox too as there's only a conversion kit available for the Series LR and the 3B will wreck that gearbox quite quickly.

Interesting bit about the marine Toy diesels, never heard of those..... Can't imagine them being 400kg or so, guess that would be with everything on it, like in a tray with batteries and everything for marine applications. Even the GM 6.2 isn't that heavy.

[plasticbadger]

Interesting bit about the marine Toy diesels, never heard of those..... Can't imagine them being 400kg or so, guess that would be with everything on it, like in a tray with batteries and everything for marine applications. Even the GM 6.2 isn't that heavy.

Opps, I had another look, and a standard marine Toyota HDJ (marinised by Yanmar as a 6LP) weighs in at 428kg, but there's a fair few additional items over a automotive engine, like the raw water heat exchanger, the water-to-air charge cooler and the exhaust water mixer, plumbing and the bellhousing assembly. These parts probably add up to 80kg, so that would make the standard version about 350kg. A GM 6.2 complete weighs about 340kg, and people put those in range Rovers!

[plasticbadger]

Here's a Dyno run on a modified Toyota 4.2 24v, peak power is 388hp, torque is pretty much flat from 2000 rpm through 4000 rpm at 510lb/ft

DYNO read out Engine 1.pdf

I know this is a marine engine running at up to 100% charge cooling efficiency, but it shows the kind of power the engine can produce. Also I notice in my line of work that only the better automotive engines tend to get marinised by the idependant marine engine builders. The current crop include BMW, Toyota, and Hyundai, but no Landrover engines!