jad Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Hi guys I know there are quite a lot of topics like this but this is a bit different..... During my rebuild my engine was dropped. Slipped off the engine crane, anyway you learn from your mistakes (we didnt drop my dads ) I was quite lucky that nothing massive broke or so i thought.... The "throttle arm" that the throttle cable attaches to snapped. I luckily had a replacement from another pump that wasnt idling very smoothly. and I dont want to if I can avoid it changing this injection pump as it has fairly recently been completely rebuilt. I put the new throttle arm on and manage to get it idling properly at 750rpm by changing the position of it on the splined shaft it sits on. The pump is apart from this still in its standard setup. During the rebuild I also change the turbo to a 300tdi one, I have checked all the main pipework but am yet to check the pipes to wastegate and injection pump/boost gauge. The wastegate is plumbed to the inlet manifold and boost gauge, and the turbo exit is plumbed to the fuel injection pump. The engine does not smoke at all apart from the normal black puff on start up. It also does fairly good fuel consumption at about 50mph I got 33mpg, about 350 miles on a tank. It builds boost ok up until about 0.5 bar but struggles somewhat after this. unless you are revving the hell out of it.... gets up to about 0.85/0.9 bar at about 3600rpm in 3rd or about the same in 5th gear at 85mph ish (private property of course) down hill.... It definitely cant get up to that speed along the flat! 70mph is tops and really struggles to pull up hills. Some hills on the A303 have me down in 3rd gear at 35mph.... The fuel lift pump does work! and I have tried a new one.... The fuel filter is fairly new and looks clean but I do plan on changing it. I will check all the turbo pipes etc The exhaust is straight through 2.5 inches and no silencers, slightly loud but passed the MOT.... It has a K&N which has recently been cleaned. I will also check the inlet and exhaust manifolds are tight. It has a 1.2 transfer box and 265/75 tyres but it had these before the rebuild and it went better then. Does anyone think dropping then engine could have made the camshaft jump a tooth on the timing belt? (thought it would probably smoke if this had happened, the injection pump I think is still in time) or will I have lost a setting on the injection pump? my feeling is its not getting enough fuel but want to get it running right before I tweak the injection pump for more power. If you have any ideas of things I could check before I end up redoing the timing and trying a different injection pump then that would be really great to hear. It would be very nice if it was something simple! Oh and Im pretty sure its not the x-eng handbrake or brakes as it coasts ok but will jack them up and check as well. I also dont think it could be the extra weight of the heavy duty chassis with roll cage mounts..... Its a discovery engine in a defender with Lt77 gearbox but that doesnt really make too much difference so thought I would post it in the international forum. Hope this is ok! Sorry for the long post and thanks for the replies. Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_s Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 are you sure you are getting full movement on the throttle spindle? i'd be inclined to take the IP off and take it to a diesel specialist to have it set up again. if the spindle took a whack when it fell, it could be bent inside the pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Sounds to me like a turbo problem, start simple and swap that for a known good one. Your fuel consumption sounds very good!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 When you refitted the throttle arm are you sure your getting full throttle? also check that the plunger is not siezed in the boost aneroid on top of the pump as that causes lack of power. I don't think dropping it will have disturbed the timing. but are you sure the timing is right anyway, although at 35mpg it's probably not far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 waste gate opening too early? Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Or even just a leaky boost pipe going to the injection pump from the turbo? Mine was after the engine swap (I'd forgotten to tighten the banjo bolt and it fell out! doh) anyway the symptoms were very similar.... and the banjo bolt is a fiver :-s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyboy Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I think I'm right in saying you shouldn't have to change the throttle arm position on the splines to get the idle speed right. Idle speed is adjusted by a stop screw. I also think it may not be getting full throttle, easy enough to check by putting your foot flat to the floor and getting someone to check the arm is moving full travel, they could even try to move the arm further to see if there is any travel left. Could also be the turbo though, what is maximum boost for the 200Tdi? Hope you get it sorted. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Could also be the turbo though, what is maximum boost for the 200Tdi? workshop manual states 0.85 bar for a Defender 200tdi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 @ian_s The throttle arm is getting full travel from the screw stops on the pump. did check that but forgot to say. before taking the pump off I would like to try some other simpler options but i do have another pump I am able to try if need be. Its possible it could be bent. but the throttle spindle did not seem to have any side to side play in. Can anyone confirm that without the throttle arm and return spring on that the splined shaft should have rotation with no real resistance and then a sprung part to it? @dirtyninety The turbo was sold to me by someone on the forum as working in good condition and I would like to be able to trust that.... but will check the simpler bits first. I dont have a spare one lying around! @dirtydiesel Ill check the FIP timing again next week when I am home to make sure. and if i try another pump then obviously the camshaft timing before I take it completely to pieces.... I thought the timing being out would have caused it to smoke in one way or another though. I havent take a pump apart before but will have a search to check about the plunger and I always have a slightly dodgy one I can dismantle first. @Daan I did think about the wastegate opening too early so I may but one of the mechanical boost controllers off ebay to see if it makes a difference as they are not too much money. @CwazyWabbit The banjo bolts etc are tight have checked that, and Ill buy some small hose clamps to make sure there are no leaks occuring @Markyboy I did need to adjust it on the splines as i was replacing it and putting it on in the wrong position causes it to idle at a different speed. the wastegate and fuel supplied should control the maximum boost and with the 300 turbo should get up to 1 bar. Thanks for the suggestions so far Ill have a look next week If anyone wants to add any other suggestions then please go ahead. cheers Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 So unfortunately dirtydiesel was right I was putting hose clips on the boost pipes and when I took the FIP one off I got some orange dust come with it. Oh joy, so took the top cover of the FIP and found this..... (Part way through cleaning) It was jammed solid so as you do with something as delicate as an FIP I hit it with land rover tool number 1 and worked it back and forth till it would move "freely" by itself, although it was still notchy. I put it back together and it now (comparitively) goes like a rocket ship! I get a just over a bar of boost, it pulls soooooo much better and makes more noise at WOT The question is now what shall I do with it? Option 1: Its working, leave it as is till it eventually goes..... Option 2: Bit of WD (or something similar) under the diapham? to loosen it up. I am thinking this may just free up some crud and cause more problems later. Option 3: Can I amalgamate this pump with the pump that was giving me hunting at idle? as that one is in perfect condition where this one isnt. Or will this just give me (as I am an amatuer with FIP's) two non working useless fuel pumps? Option 4: Anyone got an option 4? Thanks for your help Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 I have found this thread..... Replace throttle spindle seal Could I follow this up to: "Gently push the throttle spindle through the cover as you remove the cover. You should now be looking at this..." and then replace with the same parts off of the old pump? as far as I can see this would replace the crappy part on my currently fitted pump and hopefully not bring the hunting idle problem with it? Can anyone with some knowledge of FIP's confirm this? cheers Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I would lift up the diaphram and pour in about half a cap full of diesel (don't bother with wd it'll only dry up). leave it for about a week then the diaphram and spindle should lift out. Then use a rag, brake cleaner and an air line blower to clean the aneroid out. clean the spindle up with some 800grit paper and refit every thing with a little white grease. I've saved a few pumps this way, one of them actually had water in the bottom of the aneroid when i started! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 After pouring diesel in it, should I not use the car for a week then? just checking...... I tried lifting the diaphram and spindle out of the good pump and it did not seem to want to come. Is there anything you need to do before it will come out? Thanks for the help Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 just clean it up now its free. bit of 800grit like dirtydiesel says, and dont forget that if you accidentally move the diaphragm it will change the fuelling at boost. clockwise is generally more fuel if you want to tune it a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 The more you use it the better. The pin will just pull out of the pump, they can be very stiff, it helps if you turn the spindle around so that the steepest side of the 3d cam faces the fuel enrichment pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 right I have poured diesel into it and cleaned up what I can see so far. One thing I did notice was that after pouring diesel in if you depress the diaphram diesel would squirt out of the small rubber tube below the boost hose. Is this also not a breather that should also be extended when preparing a car for wading etc? It strikes me as that would be how water will have gotten into the pump in the first place? cheers Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Sounds like it as it'll suck water in if you let your foot off the throttle.... so you'll be safe if you floor it all the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxosportsaxo Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 workshop manual states 0.85 bar for a Defender 200tdi. My defender 200 tdi is running 1 bar boost with an oversized intercooler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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