reggie Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Right I'm ready to start upgrading my axles on the Rangie, I've been running 37s for a few years now but as the rangie has spent most of that time off the road having work done & it hasn't seen much action offroad, just some light laning etc. I've done most jobs I wanted to do, except the axles which are just standard 24 spline. I was going to sell the Rangie it but can't bear to part with it so going to go the whole hog & beef my axles up & keep it. Might as well make it the Ultimate Rangie I've always wanted. Main problem is the gearing is all messed up from running 37s so that needs sorting. Also would like at least one locker & have both axles heavy duty so I'm not paranoid about breaking stuff by going over a twig.........lol. To be fair I don't trash it offroad & do baby it with the 37s to prevent any breakages but that's not really the way forward & if I have to change the ring & pinions to sort my gearing then I might aswell add a locker & then I'll also need to add some HD half shafts etc etc. Anyway I think you can see where all this is going so I need some advise on the way forward. Do I just beef up the axles I already have ( I have two spare axles in the garage that are better condition than whats on it right now)? Do I get front & rear salisbury axles, change the ring & pinion & chuck in an air locker in the rear? or just fit a rear & beef up the front? Would a beefed up standard axle with a locker or 4pin diff be just as strong a salisbury? What about the later wolf axles I've read about to replace the 110 salisbury axles? Seems the least amount of work is to just beef up what I already have. I know about fitting TLC axles but that's not really for me as I have no real welding or fabrication skills so pretty much limited to upgrading the LR stuff & plus I want the least amount of work. It's been off the road for long enough. Portals I know are a good option also, but again don't have the skills to do that sort of job.........................unless or course somebody fancies giving me a helping hand with portals or TLC axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Are you sure your RRC has 24 spline axles? Only the very very late ones had them (1994> softdash IIRC). I take it you have seen the diff end of one of them given the tyres you're running Take a deep breath, for uber-strong LR axles you are looking at a couple of grand... (and then some). Probably best value would be a 4 pin open/LSD pegged front diff with uprated CVs, shafts and drive flanges, then in the back a pegged Ashcroft air locker with matching shafts and flanges. Spilling another £800 on an ARB in the front is probably not worth it, IMHO. Even then you are looking at serious beans.... Ashcroft locker built into a pegged casing.... £900? * Pegged open 4 pin front diff £500? HD Shafts and CVs £1000 Flanges £200 Oils, grease, seals, bearings, stub axles etc £300? Got deep pockets? *Note these are only off the top of my head and only ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Are you sure your RRC has 24 spline axles? Only the very very late ones had them (1994> softdash IIRC). I take it you have seen the diff end of one of them given the tyres you're running Probably best value would be a 4 pin open/LSD pegged front diff with uprated CVs, shafts and drive flanges, then in the back a pegged Ashcroft air locker with matching shafts and flanges. Spilling another £800 on an ARB in the front is probably not worth it, IMHO. Pretty much what I was thinking of doing except the LSD in the front, hadn't thought of that. It does have 24 splines as I checked when I first bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 It doesn't sound like your going to abuse your truck so i assume the 37's aren't going to be an aggressive tread pattern? ie boggers? If they're something like maxxis crawlers etc then you'll be fine on strengthened LR axles, stick with what you've got. The main issues with tyres this size will be the rapid rate of wear on things like wheel bearings and particularly swivel pin bearings. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Ashcroft Force 9's?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 It's maxxis creepy crawlers I'm running & I don't abuse my truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai_landrover Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I have been running my 90 with 4.7 10 spline front axle for ages now on 37 inch military tyre but the rear salisbury with detroit has made the front end take alot less punishment. It will be upgraded for ashcroft internals at some point tho just doing the ashcroft stuff to my offroader first then I can sort my road going 90. R.e Gearing I have a 1.003:1 transfer box and 4.7:1 diffs and the gearing isnt bad at all. Best of all Low range is much more useable and when I did the nationals using std size tyres gives realy low overall gearing. Doing long hill climbs in 3rd gear takes some getting used to especially when you run out of revs half way up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Ashcroft Force 9's?? Any info on the Force 9's? Looked on their website & couldn't find anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Err, in a word no - I couldn't find them on there either but I know a few people who are using them in anger with no problems. Probably best giving them a call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Err, in a word no - I couldn't find them on there either but I know a few people who are using them in anger with no problems. Probably best giving them a call? I've sent them an email but I do imagine they will be out of my budget, seen some vids & pictures & they look like a good piece of enginering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 I've found a rear 110 Salisbury with disc brakes for £300, what about fitting that? Would that be stronger than say a upgraded RRC axle with a locker or 4 pin diff? Is salisbury an easy swap & what would I do about the front diff ratio as I'm sure I've read that the Salisbury is 4.7 ratio or is that just the series salisbury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Salisbury is the same ratio as normal axles 3.54:1. Whilst stronger than a standard 10 / 24 spline it is not a lot stronger in standard form and you will still "need" upgraded shafts when you fit a locker. You also suffer a weight and ground clearance penalty although shaving is possible to recover some of that. Have you thought about Toyota Land Cruiser Axles? They can be found for not much money with lockers fitted if you hunt about a bit. Just upgrade the CV's with some Longfields and you're good to go (after a "bit" of fabrication to get them to fit!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Salisbury is the same ratio as normal axles 3.54:1. Whilst stronger than a standard 10 / 24 spline it is not a lot stronger in standard form and you will still "need" upgraded shafts when you fit a locker. You also suffer a weight and ground clearance penalty although shaving is possible to recover some of that. Have you thought about Toyota Land Cruiser Axles? They can be found for not much money with lockers fitted if you hunt about a bit. Just upgrade the CV's with some Longfields and you're good to go (after a "bit" of fabrication to get them to fit!!) I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought about Toyota Land Cruiser axles, it's just I'm not very experienced with welding & fabrication so pretty much ruled that out as I don't have anybody that could help me either. Also what are the ratios in the Land Cruiser axles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Also what are the ratios in the Land Cruiser axles? 4.1, or in case of a manual 80Series 3.73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 If you intend to change axles don't under estimate the work needed to do it properly so that it's a sold safe job and the vehicle drives 'right'. You need to make sure the the prop angles, castor angle are set properly. If the diff angle is different on the Toyota compared to the RRC then you will need to rotate the axle to swivel flanges (do toyota's have bolted on swivels??) - most likely by choping of the end of the axle and welding back on at the right orientation. Not trying to puit you off, just suggesting that if your not confident of your capabilities then uprating a rover axles is less hassle. On the other hand if you have a lift of any reasonable amount you will need to correct the castor angle on a rover axle anyway.... Castor corrected radius arms are a bodge that might (depends on your luck by all accounts) give you propshaft vibrations. Weld up the axle flanges and redrill to give the required castor angle and you will have good steering and a happy propshaft. I used KAM ring and pinions,ARB's and ashcroft CV's and shafts. Worked fine. If repeating I think I would just buy the lot from Ashcroft. Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 If you intend to change axles don't under estimate the work needed to do it properly so that it's a sold safe job and the vehicle drives 'right'. You need to make sure the the prop angles, castor angle are set properly. If the diff angle is different on the Toyota compared to the RRC then you will need to rotate the axle to swivel flanges (do toyota's have bolted on swivels??) - most likely by choping of the end of the axle and welding back on at the right orientation. Not trying to puit you off, just suggesting that if your not confident of your capabilities then uprating a rover axles is less hassle. Adrian Precisely the reason I didn't start my post with what axles can I fit etc. As you say If I'm not confidet in my capabilities to fit another type of axle like Toyota or Nissan which Im not, then it is easier to upgrade the ones I have, which has been my thoughts all along. I know from what I've read & seen on here that it is much more cost effective to fit Toyota axles for example but not being in a postion to make that choice in slightly frustrating. So it brings me back to my original questions of either swap the back at least for a Salisbury or just uprade both Rover ones. I will be swapping the back axle anyway as the one on mine is in bad condition, rusty as hell, a hole by the shock mount & have a good one sat in the garage. Probabay be cheaper to just upgrade what I have rather than buying a Salisbury which will also need uprating as I want to change the ring & pinions for the gearing. But then I think well if I'm going to the trouble of dropping the back axle, might as well fit a Salisbury, all depends on how strong an uprated Rover axle will be? Will it take some abuse offroad while running 37s? If a Rover rear axle has a locker which is 4 pin, get it pegged, fit HD crown & pinion, some HD halfshafts & HD drive flanges would that be more than enough to cope? My driving style isn't mental, I just want to be able to use it without fear of breaking stuff everytime I go to a pay & play or get stranded up a lane due to a breakage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 In my view a upgraded rover axle is good enough unless you have over 36" tyres and drive like a tit. As wieght is your enemy off road your better off with the lightest axle you can find with the strrongest materials you can afford fitted to it. The reality of £££ may be the issue though. However an upgraded rover axle should have a higher resale value than an upgraded sailbury should you decide to sell them later? Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 All this talk of uprated sailsburys, i have only ever come accross two people who have broken a sails shaft, I have given them some hellish abuse on 33" tyres and never done anything to one. (cue 50 people who have grenaded a sails ) I think a upgraded rover probably is stronger than a standard sails but a sails has always been some cheap strength. Dont forget to factor in that changing a sails diff for the 4.75 ratio isnt a straightforward diy job (doable tho). The ashlocker lsd seems reasonably priced for the front end if your not hell bent on a full locker (as long as its suitable handling wise) Just my 2p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I broke a salisbury shaft on my S3 88", running 255/85/16s, no locker and the 2.5 Petrol engine. It did have a very low geared series 1 transfer box though. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 Well I think I'm just going to upgrade what I've already got, I have a good front & good rear axle in the garage & thinking of building them up first then fitting them to the car. Not sure what would be easiest really as I've never changed an axle or even replaced a diff in my current one, not even a shaft. I've emailed Ashcrofts & also Kam diffs to get some advise on whats what, so far only Dave at Ashcrofts has got back to me & I've now fired a load of questions back at him. Should now a little more in the next few days & some prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 By the way muddy, I like the idea about the Ashcroft LSD upfront, it's only slightly more than a 4 pin diff. I've been on the website & found some info, it's totally transparent on road, i.e, no unwanted adverse effects so should be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I used to run 37" Mickey Thompson Claws on my Defender TD5, with ARBs and Ashcroft shafts and CVs. The axles, CVs and diffs happily took everything I threw at them (including some greenlaning in a Russian swamp), but the R&P, still stock, were the weak point. I broke the rear twice (the original one and a second hand unit I had lying around, unknown history but fastest way to get back on the road). I would definitely recommend upgrading your Rover axles, a Salls will be heavier and bigger (so you lose a bit of the clearance you gained with the 37s) and not as strong as Ashcroft shafts/CVs (IMHO). As for diffs, I'd chose the Ashcroft Airlocker (I have them in my P38a and they seem to perform at least as good as the ARBs, with less wear items and at a lower price). Since you need a compressor anyway, I'd fit them both front and rear. Best to get the R&P pegged for ease of mind, and you might want to consider changing the gearing as well (4.1 or 4.7). MY TD5 didn't have a problem getting everything up to speed on the road, but I did feel the low gears weren't low enough any more for steep decents and maximum control. I'm sure you're V8 will do the business as well, though with the standard RRC transfer box you'll have even higher gearing. If it's an auto, it will put quite some strain on the torque convertor. Greetz, Filip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Sensible decision. Whilst you have the axles in the garage, cut the diff pans off and weld on some HD replacements. So much better than diff guards that invariably get displaced just when you need them! It would be a shame to ruin all that internal bling by thumping a rock on a puny QT guard or similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I've emailed Ashcrofts & also Kam diffs to get some advise on whats what, so far only Dave at Ashcrofts has got back to me & I've now fired a load of questions back at him. Should now a little more in the next few days & some prices. You'll be lucky to get a reply from Kam..... it just took me 4 phone calls, 2 emails and then 2 weeks to get a replacement shaft along with 4 stub shafts from Kevin ! Ashcroft have always been next day when i've ordered from them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 You'll be lucky to get a reply from Kam..... it just took me 4 phone calls, 2 emails and then 2 weeks to get a replacement shaft along with 4 stub shafts from Kevin ! Ashcroft have always been next day when i've ordered from them Well, I although I emailed them both only Ashcrofts have got back to me. Dave called me up the other day to discuss my options, we had a chat & I decided on an ashcroft locker with HD 4.37 R&P for each axle to sort the gearing & some HD half shafts, HD drive flanges & HD CV's for the front. I will of course have to do this over a period of a few months as I don't have the cash to splash all at once. Dave was also good enough to give me some discount on each part because I'm buying the lot which is very helpful. I hadn't decided to have the diffs pegged but thinking about it, might be a good idea just means It will take a little longer to get all the bits. I was going to have the rear locker, R&P, shafts & drive flanges at the end of November when I got paid but I might have to skip the shafts now till after Xmas if I have the diff pegged. I'm also having them build the diffs for me as I've never attempted that before & want it done right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.