Hiclone in a 200tdi - does it do anything?

[Bowie69]

Tis true, although even at such levels you'll still often find them using paper element air filters and not synthetic weave ones, despite the later out flowing, out filtering and out lasting paper elements. So maybe they still don't 'optimise' everything despite the profit margin.

But that is because paper ones work?

Mmmmm, here we go round the mulberry bush Paper filters filter, K&Ns just let more cack through, and make your intake noisier

Si, don't get me started on Homeopathic 'medicine'

[PieEater3142]

OMG what have I started.... I take back the question

[PieEater3142]

But they did tests and everything : http://www.hiclone.c...20DISCOVERY.pdf

Lol, maybe they tested the Hiclone on a downhill angle?

[stuck]

You are all very cynical!

I think you would all benefit from one of these:http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3cba00c577

to help balance your humours and chi! If you sit one of these on your engine, apparently it will run on pure b******t!

Looking at the pictures - I now know what to do with all the swarf from my Mill!

Si

Hmm... The x-tractor "taking the urine since 2012"

[PieEater3142]

And then theres this.. http://www.hiclone.co.uk/LAND%20ROVER.html

[Bowie69]

Lol, maybe they tested the Hiclone on a downhill angle?

Nah, one way down the road with hyclone with a tail wind, and without into a headwind.

[simonr]

Inspired by the Hiclone.......

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...em=190643939352

If you cant beat 'em.......

Si

[Bowie69]

Slow day at work Si!

Very good though

[simonr]

I can offer a forum discount if you like? Buy two, get one!

It's had me in fits of laughter this afternoon and it has brightened my whole week! I take it the person who has emailed to ask if it is Freelander Compatible is one of you lot? Unfortunately, the Freelander version is still under development - but I have a feeling it will be a lot more expensive!

Si

[Bowie69]

Not guilty m'lud

[PieEater3142]

Si that is truly awesome. can I get the combo package. I assume of course that the security spell requires some equipment and that it contains a nice mech lock

[Guest]

I was wondering if the security spell would interfere with security devices already fitted??

[simonr]

The magical rocks have been tested and are fully compliant with RF Compatibility regulations. They use an energised plasma stream (just in case you Star Trek fans wondered what an EPS Manifold was all about) QAM modulated in the ELF (what else could it be?) 10^8m band. This is why you don't generally pick up magic waves on your car radio.

Thank you for the sale - your rock is resting in the garden until I come home from the pub!

Si

[Retroanaconda]

[GBMUD]

Not that I'm denying what you are saying, but I'm not sure it's a truly valid argument.

Manufacturers build cars to a standard dictated by cost and time to assemble (and other factors). If this standard can be met, then they won't add on extra bits even if they do offer benefits.

And it can be summed up as a cost thing really.

For example, if a car maker builds 200,000 cars per year and they can meet the 'standard' without such a device, then why would they spend the extra to add it?

If it worked then manufacturers would do it because they would sell extra units based on the improved fuel economy and performance gains and because of the lower excise duty banding based on the consequently reduced carbon emissions. It would also mean less time, effort and money spent in meeting minimum required emissions standards in the first place. Car makers do not spend millions designing and manufacturing complicated engine/fuel management systems when they could fit a bit of bent Tin instead!

Even if the cost price plus labour to fit it was say £2-4 in total, over 200,000 units tha'ts £200,000 - £400,000 lost profit.

Creative accounting, love it!

Chris

[big len]

They don't work

- Me, 2 years into a PhD in Turbomachinery

[Chicken Drumstick]

Mmmmm, here we go round the mulberry bush Paper filters filter, K&Ns just let more cack through, and make your intake noisier

Si, don't get me started on Homeopathic 'medicine'

Just to make clear, I did say synthetic weave, a K&N is a cotton weave and totally different. Aircraft and heavy plant machinery tend to use synthetic weave as it out flows and out filters and out lasts paper.

Something like these guys: http://www.donaldson.com/index.html

[Bowie69]

Ah, with you, they look good

[Chicken Drumstick]

If it worked then manufacturers would do it because they would sell extra units based on the improved fuel economy and performance gains and because of the lower excise duty banding based on the consequently reduced carbon emissions. It would also mean less time, effort and money spent in meeting minimum required emissions standards in the first place. Car makers do not spend millions designing and manufacturing complicated engine/fuel management systems when they could fit a bit of bent Tin instead!

Don't get me wrong, I know these things don't work, couldn't possible work. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's a flawed logic to assume that just because a car maker doesn't use it, then it's rubbish.

For instance the stock tune/map on a Defender Td5 is total an utter pants, even compared to the fairly rubbish Disco TD5 map. Yet Land Rover still built and sold them like it on purpose.

A better map, as we all know can yield a more efficient engine, more torque, more power, better drive and often better on fuel - so using your logic above why didn't they do this?

Indeed, if car makers truly spent their million to build the BEST they could, then where would it leave companies like X-Eng who make better than OEM bits?

Anyhow, that was all I was saying, nothing more, nothing less.

Creative accounting, love it!

Chris

Creative maybe, but not holey inaccurate

[Chicken Drumstick]

Ah, with you, they look good

[landroversforever]

Don't get me wrong, I know these things don't work, couldn't possible work. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's a flawed logic to assume that just because a car maker doesn't use it, then it's rubbish.

For instance the stock tune/map on a Defender Td5 is total an utter pants, even compared to the fairly rubbish Disco TD5 map. Yet Land Rover still built and sold them like it on purpose.

A better map, as we all know can yield a more efficient engine, more torque, more power, better drive and often better on fuel - so using your logic above why didn't they do this?

Indeed, if car makers truly spent their million to build the BEST they could, then where would it leave companies like X-Eng who make better than OEM bits?

Anyhow, that was all I was saying, nothing more, nothing less.

Creative maybe, but not holey inaccurate

Part of the reasoning behind the carp map on the td5 etc I thought was for the poor fuel quality elsewhere?

[big len]

Part of the reasoning behind the carp map on the td5 etc I thought was for the poor fuel quality elsewhere?

Pretty much ! The standards for RON number of petrol and cetane numbers of diesel held here are not alway applicable elsewhere. There have been a lot of advances in diesel engines in recent years but each of these is heavily relient on the use of more refined fuel and massively expensive electronics and auxiliaries.

Here is an interesting thought, quoting the Dr in this place that runs the catalyst research group - the cost of the exhaust gas treatment system on a modern diesel engine cost more to produce than the engine itself. So rest assured even if this hiclone device gave a 1% increase and cost £500 to install it would still be appearing in modern cars.

[GBMUD]

Don't get me wrong, I know these things don't work, couldn't possible work. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's a flawed logic to assume that just because a car maker doesn't use it, then it's rubbish.

Good point, well made.

For instance the stock tune/map on a Defender Td5 is total an utter pants, even compared to the fairly rubbish Disco TD5 map. Yet Land Rover still built and sold them like it on purpose.

A better map, as we all know can yield a more efficient engine, more torque, more power, better drive and often better on fuel - so using your logic above why didn't they do this?

I do not know much about engine maps and thermodynamics I am sorry to say. I do know that a standard Defender can be driven flat out all day. My chipped one upsets it's exhaust manifold/studs when driven flat out for prolonged periods. On this basis I suppose that Landrover tuned the Td5 fuel maps to take account of the importance of emissions, economy, longevity, driveability and to be low enough powered not to place undue stress on drivetrain components, though without inside knowledge I can only guess and make assumptions.

...if car makers truly spent their million to build the BEST they could, then where would it leave companies like X-Eng who make better than OEM bits?

Of course manufacturers work down to a price/fit parts which are just good enough. I never disputed that.

Car makers have to make vehicles which work well in all circumstances but which are attractive to customers with a limited budget, so there will always be compromises made. If we want to 'tune' a vehicle to be specially good at one particular thing (off-road use?) then that is often at the expense of another aspect of potential use (going to the shops!).

Chris

[Chicken Drumstick]

Good point, well made.

I do not know much about engine maps and thermodynamics I am sorry to say. I do know that a standard Defender can be driven flat out all day. My chipped one upsets it's exhaust manifold/studs when driven flat out for prolonged periods. On this basis I suppose that Landrover tuned the Td5 fuel maps to take account of the importance of emissions, economy, longevity, driveability and to be low enough powered not to place undue stress on drivetrain components, though without inside knowledge I can only guess and make assumptions.

Of course manufacturers work down to a price/fit parts which are just good enough. I never disputed that.

Car makers have to make vehicles which work well in all circumstances but which are attractive to customers with a limited budget, so there will always be compromises made. If we want to 'tune' a vehicle to be specially good at one particular thing (off-road use?) then that is often at the expense of another aspect of potential use (going to the shops!).

Chris

I can agree with all that.

[FridgeFreezer]

Right to a point - the "rubbish fuel map" doesn't make sense HERE as our fuel is OK. But given that LR cover eventualities like "what if you drive it to Africa with a 3.5t trailer behind it?" it very much DOES work from their point of view. Whenever I see someone "improving" on what a manufacturer has done, I always try and find the reason behind the original design choice as you have to assume the manufacturer has a lot more expertise behind the decision than anyone else ever will, even if the end result seems odd.

OK not many of us will ever drive to africa, but plenty of LR owners will do that sort of thing and fully expect the car to carry on working.

Likewise, I rather doubt the Bugatti air filter is off the shelf from the nearest Halfords...