v8bobber Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Hi, I recently bought a 300tdi 110. Today I have looked at the block in order to get the engine number off it and despite having the obvious external parts of a 300tdi, The block says 12J on it which if I remember correctly is a N/A diesel block. I know that they are similar blocks but would this mean that the "old" block would not be up to the job in hand? It looks to me as if the bits of a Tdi have been bolted on the na block, should i be worried? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeback Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Are you sure the engine number has not been over stamped? I don't think the parts are interchangeable between N/A and a 300tdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 A 12J block is sunstantially different from a 300Tdi block - the right side protrusion for the oil pump skew gear and circular brake vacuum pump was deleted and changed to a flat faced mounting for the fuel lift pump whiule the left side water jacket was all but deleted, having a shape which follows the contours of the cylinders. The 12J block also lacks the oil galleries and ports for a turbo charger. You simply would not be able to fit the 300Tdi ancilliaries to a 12J block. Are you sure the engine number isn't 21J, as I seem to recall that being a Tdi number? Photos would resolve the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bobber Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 Hi, Thanks for the replies, I have checked again today in the hope that I had misread it somehow but no, definitely starts 12J. I will add a picture to see if this will assist. I have also taken a couple of each side of the engine. Hopefully this will assist. Thanks in advance, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defender dave Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 that j is not very strait ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bobber Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 Yes I did think that too. I don't suppose that there's anyone out there with a 12j engine to see what their engine number looks like? I would also like to find out definitively if it's possible to put the later 300 Tdi parts on the earlier block? If not then I'm guessing the original number must have been overstamped for some reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeback Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 About 10 years ago I went to see a 300tdi and did all the HPI stuff on it, looking at it up close the engine number had been over stamped, my mate that I went with had his 300tdi from new and when we looked at his engine number, his was not perfect but it was all in line. I think landrover did them by hand back then. I spoke to the local plod about this landrover and they said its something they see a lot of. What engine number is on the V5? Get an HPI report on it and have a look to see if all the other ID numbers match. I really don't think anyone would go to the effort of trying to make 300tdi parts fit the N/A block, even if it was possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bobber Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 Had a further look and it appears the engine number is the same as the one that is on the logbook. I should have explained that this is an old 110 which was rebuilt at some point in its life with a galv chassis. It had a 2.5na diesel as an original fitment. Either someone has put a 300tdi in it and gone to the effort of stampIng the original engine number in it, or have altered the block to fit the later 300tdi head, turbo and ancillaries. The only thing I can think of is try to find out from someone what features are unique to the 300tdi block to positively identify it..... Any ideas? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Don't think a 300Tdi timing case will fit a n/a engine block & the oil filter head is different shape too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeback Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Best thing to do would be to find someone with a 300tdi and have a look at them both together. Sounds like someone has wanted to not mention the fact it's got a 300tdi in it, or they got hold of an engine with questionable ID and hiden it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I wonder if someone uprated the truck at some point, but stamped the old part number on it so they didn't have to tell the insurance about the upgrade? Back in the day, I put a Tdi in a NA Diesel 110 and my insurance charged me a packet because it had a few extra HP! These days they wouldn't care, but then it seemed a big difference! They insisted on me uprating the brakes to 300 Tdi spec to go with it! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bobber Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 Well, mystery solved. Si, you are right. It looks as if there is a cosha 300tdi but with the original engine number stamped in it. As pointed out, apart from the "J" being on a bit of a gimp. It seems pretty believable. It didn't help the fact that the block is painted red, as per the original 2.5D. I ended up searching through the 90/110 workshop manual and then browsing online at various tdi pictures. I will post what I have found as it might help others.... The easiest way i've found to identify the type is by looking at the manifold side of the engine The picture below is of the 2.5 turbo diesel. It differs from the 2.5 na diesel by having the bolt arrangement (1 blanked and 3 threaded holes near to it) near to the left hand (front) core plug. Below these are the oil pipe unions for the turbo etc, as pointed out by Snagger which aren't on the 2.5na block either. Also, the "face" of this side of the engine where the core plugs are is relatively flat, whereas on the 300tdi........ as mentioned again by Snagger the contours tend to follow the cylinders. The other difference is the presence of additional threaded holes in the block (to the right of the red blanks in the above picture) which are for the 300tdi engine mountings which is only present on these engines. So I can breath easy with regards to having a proper engine, although I still don't know which bloody fanbelt to order. I guess I'll have to order both types and put the "wrong" one on ebay Thanks again Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 That's a useful summary, thanks. I did look late last night at pictures of my 12J engine, but none showed a clear view of the number so couldn't help in that regard. I can write that the line of digits looks straight and orderly, if it was done by hand holding the punches the operator showed greater expertise than the person who did your engine. Also, the whole are is in red, whereas the number area on yours is white. The font on my 12J seems a larger size than the numbers in your picture. My last hesitation was that I couldn't tell which part of your engine is stamped (I'm not familiar with the 300TDi). In the 12J it's a horizontal flat just above the mechanical lift pump, well back on the RHS of the engine (viewed from the drivers seat). Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 ...... Also, the whole are is in red, whereas the number area on yours is white. ....... The 300 tdi's that I have seen all had the engine number over painted with a splash of white paint ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bobber Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 I guess the engine number part of it will remain a mystery. It was used by a tree surgeon at one point and his number is still stencilled in the door so I could always give him a ring as I think it's them who have given it the "ten years younger" treatment by putting a galv chassis under it along with the 300tdi and r380. Im quite attached to it so it would be a shame to cast aspersions on its character..... Bizarrely the biggest problem I have now is prising the keys out of my other halfs hands. Who's have thought a 25 year old hi-cap would have so much attraction?! Thanks again Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Well, mystery solved. Si, you are right. It looks as if there is a cosha 300tdi but with the original engine number stamped in it. As pointed out, apart from the "J" being on a bit of a gimp. It seems pretty believable. It didn't help the fact that the block is painted red, as per the original 2.5D. I ended up searching through the 90/110 workshop manual and then browsing online at various tdi pictures. I will post what I have found as it might help others.... The easiest way i've found to identify the type is by looking at the manifold side of the engine The picture below is of the 2.5 turbo diesel. It differs from the 2.5 na diesel by having the bolt arrangement (1 blanked and 3 threaded holes near to it) near to the left hand (front) core plug. Below these are the oil pipe unions for the turbo etc, as pointed out by Snagger which aren't on the 2.5na block either. Also, the "face" of this side of the engine where the core plugs are is relatively flat, whereas on the 300tdi........ as mentioned again by Snagger the contours tend to follow the cylinders. The other difference is the presence of additional threaded holes in the block (to the right of the red blanks in the above picture) which are for the 300tdi engine mountings which is only present on these engines. So I can breath easy with regards to having a proper engine, although I still don't know which bloody fanbelt to order. I guess I'll have to order both types and put the "wrong" one on ebay Thanks again Dave Late 2.5NA has the turbo block so does have the blanks etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Late 2.5NA has the turbo block so does have the blanks etc. Thanks Phil, for adding that comment. It ties in with a comment posted by Richard Turner, of Turner Engineering, back in May 2002, in another forum. Responding to an enquiry about whether it was simple to convert a 12J non-turbocharged to a 19J turbocharged, he wrote "Not that simple. Unless the 12J block is the later block and has the hole suitable for the oil feed for the turbo on the side, it cannot be converted.". The emphasis is mine. I'm interested because up till now I seemed to be the only person in the world with an engine with a clearly original 12J number, AND a turbocharger firmly attached. This was installed by one of those wonderful 'POs' we read about. All I have to do now is get the rest of the vehicle up to scratch, and start putting some miles on it :-) Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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