Sam's 3.5 Disco MEGASQUIRT START/FINISH INSTALL THREAD! :)

[Mr Noisy]

It drives!!!!

And rather well too. Flat spot cleared quickly.

Viscous fan has seized, hoping it will free up, must have been sat for too long. Maybe it was the wrong way up, I have seen fans that must be stored on way up only.

Anyway, other than that, basically ok!

What to you mean WTF that disco come from?!

And yeah VERY lucky to have an awesome workshop available!!

[Mr Noisy]

Oh yeah and my tacho doesn't work

Have set tacho out to JS0 and connected to spare1 but no go

Any ideas please?!

[FridgeFreezer]

Any diagnostics on the tacho - are you getting a signal on the ECU pin that looks right? What's it connected to - factory tacho or aftermarket gauge?

The tacho circuit in the MS should be putting out a 12v square wave.

[Mr Noisy]

Hi fridge

Tomorrow I'm going to have to measure the output from the d37 plug.

It's an aftermarket tacho that previously was driven from the coil, but yeah I will need a 12v signal.

Will have to meter it and see what it looks like, if anything!

Thanks

[zardos]

Or just try the IDM pin of the EDIS (I read somewhere that the CTO - clean tacho out on the 4 cylinder model is actually just a straight connection to the IDM pin)

[Mr Noisy]

Yep that's kinda correct, because 4 cylinder has less coil wires and uses same plug there is a CTO on the unit but "I'm pretty sure" it's got an IDM aswell!

[Mr Noisy]

Anyway gennulmen!

Has been a bit quiet on here past few days, basically over the weekend car has become drive able.

Saturday was a late finish again, so Sunday I did some driving!

Carried out a couple of datalogs on NB, and in fairness the map improved when analysed in MLV. Better power midrange and the idle was affected, so I knew changes were being made.

I then loaded nige's base map again and set about wiring up my Wideband.

Firstly, must say I like it! Much better than guessing what the AFR is!!

Think I will look at drilling a hole in the floor etc so that I can run Wideband permanently but keep the controller inside.

Going to take further advice on this but target AFR is a bonus.

Anyway.

So I went out for a 20 minute datalog, tried to cover all aspects.

Car was basically rich (I have a WB gauge also) running around 8:1 at idle, 10:1 under power and around 13:1 on cruise.

MLV made a lot of changes the first time it analysed, and then I had around 12.5:1 under power, a slightly hunting idle BUT on cruise gauge showed about 19:1 and overrun in the late 20s!

Crimes I thought, datalog again for 5 minutes and MLV richened slightly, but still very lean on cruising.

I reloaded the Nige map and thought I better consult the panel.

One thing I am struggling to research is the AFR bins thing on MLV.

I have got WB AFR bins1, WB AFR bins2 and default narrowband.

Both WB bins looked super rich whereas the default NB table looked ideal, so I chose that both times before analysing.

Could this be where I have gone wrong?

Have I even gone wrong??

Idle needed retuning but it drove well after just an hour of logging.

Hmmm

[Mr Noisy]

I noticed that I did NOT "open msq" after I opened the datalog in MLV, but I assumed that it had automatically found it because the VE and spark table it had opened were looking believeable!

Will have to check this!!

[Mr Noisy]

Also should I have acceleration enrichment turned off when logging?

I read that Phil Tobin recommends to keep AE and EGO correction both on when logging, using the car exactly as normal.

I also wonder what exactly I should use as a switch point for the WB, and whether I should set up target tables is megatune BEFORE tuning.

Tough cookie this one

[Mr Noisy]

Oh and did I mention:

Megasquirt SnE is f*cking incredible!

It has turned my land rover into a sports car! Va va vooooom!

(Now please help me make it work properly!)

[AncientGeek]

You don't need a switch point for WB, just set up the target table and tell it to use the target table "always" Also, unlike NB, you can do closed loop right up to 100Kpa

19 at cruise seems unlikely and AFAIK the LC1 won't measure anything above 20, so I would check the voltage coming out of the WB.

Also Megatune needs to be configurated for the type of wideband.

Perhaps give us some screen shots.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Sam,

Up to my ears today, but quickly here are the screen shot for a NB vs a WB completely different !

I always load my safe files (Which are deliberately set rich) for 4 wire NB sensors

I THINK note THINK this is the LC1 settings I use, can't be sure at the mo, and about to fly out of the door

......(well hobble..... broken me toes )

Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Ah, found it

Bible for you to learn

LC-1_Manual-1.pdf

(I always have used LC1)

[Les Brock]

broken me toes )

Nige

Ouch.......Health and safety Nightmare you are Nige, drop a Diff did you

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Er no, half awake SWMBO yacking at me, erm walked into the Wellington Chest that I forgot was there = crack

Quick internet search = don't waste your / Drs time, so toes bound to one not broken

Hobble Hobble

Maybe I should where steel caps boots to bed

Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Final note before hobling off

Whatever peeps say I am sorry but tuning with a WB from scratch is a vast amount more user input required than my delivered set up, with the ECU programmed for the NB the software matched and MLV set up so it all loads up

I set the fuel map a tad rich just in case (and peeps do) have the advance wrong, to little = ok flat engine too much equals pinking - too weak and heat and poss damage, setting the VE across the board is not fool proff but gives a margin of safety and a quick trip with NB + MLV + Tuning = map tweaked to engine in truck

WB is more advanced, less forgiving in terms that there is a mountain of things to get to grips with, calibrating the sensor before us blah blah. I have been nervouis of doing a "How to thread" cos if you get things wrong things can get very bad very quickly, so I don't wnat the "I followed your advice and melted my pston" type comment !

I work on the "If you wnat to go above NB and what I give you - then its down to you to get the info and don't blame me etc etc "

BUT

Yes WB can do what it takes an age for NB to do, however I will still argue that a tuner who knows his stuff with MS MLV and a Simple narrowband can get amazing results

that can be gotten with WB IF YOU GET everything correct

I have lost count of how many calls and "Chats" I have had with peeps who cock up on the WB settings and then get themselves in a huge mess with no idea why.

Homework is required, bucket loads of it !

And - at the end of the day I have had peeps do NB + MLV or tuner studio, get th engine fair sweet, o to a proffessional rolling road pay ****loads of £s and drive out wallet empty with minsot tweaks don't forget this is a USA Cast of 50s Buick engine, nothing complex, nothing whizzy, in 2 tons of 4x4 with $WD soaking up BHP + Torque and the aerodynamics of a block of flats, plus if like my 90 35" Simex "F A Grips" and handling that would frighten a drunk

I don't think you would notice +/- 10 BHP or more !

Tune for swetness and pick up and you'll be stunned

Nige

Nige

[Mr Noisy]

Thanks guys, will have a look into it.

I have been reading lots but can't find any info on the MLV AFR settings part.

For instance, WB AFR bins1 looks like a crazy table!

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Been following this thread with interest ...............you have done a good job of the wiring which will serve you well in the future.............. a very high percentage of MS faults are usually down to iffy wiring !

If want a nice idle on an RV8 then it needs to run just a little rich at idle. You do this by looking at the idle bin and then making it and the bins around it (6 IIRC) just a tad richer.

Make sure that the WB closed loop is turned off at below about 1100 rpm, otherwise it will try to make significant and strange adjustments to the table at very low rpm.

Once you have it about right, then reset the mechanical base idle and connect up the IAC (or IAV – depends what camp you sit in !) ……………….. set the IAC to closed loop and then the fun really starts.

Get ting a good map only takes a day of two and then allow for refined adjustments over a couple of longish journeys. However, getting the cold start set up correctly will take a week or three as you only really get one crack at it per day.

Keep your eye on the IAT as latent heat will affect it (depends where you have fitted it) and cause MS to compensate as it think the inlet air is warm. You can compensate for this within MS.

[Mr Noisy]

Thankyou for the tips bbc!

Will work through it bit by bit, digesting the information and trying it out.

Will double check my settings and have another go at things this evening

[Mr Noisy]

Well, progress!

Seems the key problem was not having set the AFR table.

I am now using AFR target aswell, but yesterday I did not understand that MLV uses the AFR table to base it's tuning.

The standard WB AFR table in MT was some kinda crazy figures, which is what I was getting on my AFR gauge.

SO, set up an AFR table as per one that Bowie had developed (thankyou Bowie) and tried again.

Even just on base map with target AFR it was doing a good job of leaning out to 14.7 on light cruise.

Had to go to Preston tonight to pick up a viscous fan (£10 fan, £20 fuel lol ) so it had a good chance to datalog.

Ran a log there for around 30-40 minutes, analysed, logged again, analysed, so now I'm on VE table 3 and it drives beautifully, SO MUCH POWER!

AFR gauge is showing heathy results, 12:1 ish idle, 14.7 light cruise, 13.5:1 motorway cruise up to around 12:1 depending on how heavy the foot gets.

Still learning, but can really feel the VE table coming along.

It is impossibly smooth and powerful, compared to Hotwire and dizzy at least.

Managed 85mph in it whereas before 70 was a struggle.

No complaints whatsoever tonight, great results from a great drive out.

Will work at it more because the second analyse still altered 75% of the table, the largest change being 12 points.

Things I want to look at (I think) are leaning out the cruise more or maybe even building a map for motorway use, and need to improve my all rounder map further, obviously idle work will then be required because currently hot start takes a little while to stabilise! Also that tacho isn't working, but haven't had chance to probe the ECU output yet!

Thanks for your help today chaps, as far as i know it has been a positive day today!

Cheers

[AncientGeek]

Fantastic! You can can go as high as 18:1 on very light cruise with suitable spark map changes. But don't try that yet!

I find MLV overcompensates on very long logs, even on "very hard". Also it tries to change cells outside the closed loop area, like idle. If its already close, I prefer Megatune autotune for longer runs (but still logging so you can see what's happening). As BBC says watch that IAT, it can screw up your tuning.

Also with the WB, check you are actually getting ego correction at high Kpa. I think the default is to go closed loop at about 85Kpa which is sensible with NB but not needed for WB with suitable target table.

After looking your wiring peekshas (as we call them here) I looked at my wiring again and got thoroughly depressed.

[Mr Noisy]

Thankyou for that explanation geek

Ok I will do a few 15 minute logs and keep an eye on what MLV is up to. Regards the hardness setting in MLV, Nige told me about it the other day but I cannot find it! what am I missing??

Also yes regards the IAT, last night it was about 55F when driving but raising to 66F and no doubt more eventually when sat at the lights etc.

I have tubular headers and nige's IAT adaptor MAF replaced thingy, which is right above bank 1 header!

I have some heat insulation matting that I was using on my civic a few years back, will wrap the tube and see. Have also changed to degrees C in MT so that I actually understand the temp figures!!!

Regards the EGO correction at high MAP, I think you mentioned that yesterday?

I did have a look for it in the settings but couldn't decipher where the setting was located. Any more insight please?!

And finally regards the wiring, urm, sorry yeah I just get keen sometimes!

[Mr Noisy]

Ah ha, found the 'open loop' settings and changed EGO limit to 100kpa

[CwazyWabbit]

Time for a slightly off topic on topic comment ..... how's the new heater?

[Mr Noisy]

Ah ha, the heater! Well, it's not quite as good as I hoped but tbh it's a quarter of the size I expected!

Without pipes it kicks out some serious blow, with pipes it's more than acceptable, with dashboard on top and demister ducting etc it struggles.

Don't get me wrong, it demists and it heats, but it's no whirlwind!!

Would I buy another? No, it was not cheap at 110 quid.

Is there another/better option considering the usage? No, there are no other custom type heaters.

Does it do what i need it to do? Yes, it blows, heats and is very small.

My ONLY gripe is that it is very small and therefore has its limits, but I have space for more which this does not fill!