Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Squirt wd40 spray it will lift revs where leak is :0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Yeah have been spraying brake cleaner around, and when I spray it near the injectors/inlet mani gasket it drops the revs nearly to a stall. Wtf?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Injector seals ? Trumpet to base seal ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I think I may have an answer..... In post 167.. Nice picture of inlet plenum, specifically under the inlet / butterfly valve... Water heater jacket is removed. I believe one, maybe two of those bolt homes will feed into the plenum. If not blocked these will permit enough air to make tickover very high and probably enough air for the engine to run.... (Don't ask me how I know...) If you can get your fingers under the inlet plenum it may pay to try blocking those holes and see if the tick over drops.... Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Ting Winner V8 Freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Neil my new best buddy old pal!! The two inner holes are open to the plenum. Blocked them with my fingers and the engine stopped! Looks like I need some more base idle. V8 Freak you absolute day-making hero! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Thankyou, by the way, and thankyou Nige for the help elsewhere! Will now get back on track... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 20 20 vision on v8 freak lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 500rpm base idle. Life is good again, thankyou v8 freak!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 Hello gents. Bloody knackered today, think I got a bit gassed last night running it in the workshop Anyway, I think the Wideband will arrive today. Gonna set it up in configurator, and then in exhaust gas settings. Do I need to select AFR table for VE table 1? I had a look at the auto tune, do I simply turn autotune on, drive around various styles, then stop, switch off and ign on again then burn to ECU? Is that it??! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Fidle/Spark off flashes even when CTS registers 180F ?? In PWM mode the FIDLE pin is pulsing on/off to make a varying average voltage, so megatune is just grabbing the pin state every fraction of a second and displaying it. Likewise the spark output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 Thanks fridge, another one explained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingy Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Its good to see all the problems arising and all the answers from fellow forum members, whether correct or not. If the updated pinned thread removed these, then others, such as myself, would still be in the cow poo. Yes the thread does need editin for future porposes, but PLEASE keep the other incorrect, answers too. (such as the last few posts) Keep it up lads its enthralling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Yup Agree ! Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 So! Had a night off on Friday, nearly gassed myself Thursday night, then got 5 1/2 hours sleep, and generally felt terrible on Friday. Got an early night Friday, and am back on track now. This evening I'm going to remove, tape and replace the loom. Will also fit the heater. May get chance to check the igntion timing with a strobe light and adjust megatune accordingly. Nige also tells me to have a look at the VE and spark tables and see which buckets it likes to idle in, probably a group of 4. I am to write down those values, so then when I start road tuning (which he recommends I start on narrowband as Wideband is "too good" to start with and should be used later on for tightening the tables up) the likelihood is that megalogviewer will want to lean out the VE table but then it will likely not idle so well, so I have to then manually replace the idle buckets, if the idle or startup is bad. So, forward planning whilst I've got time to think about it: Urm, well, tonight loom and heater. Then I need to start thinking about getting the dash back in. All the wiring for my dashboard switch panel is basically there, just some need extending etc. Will likely focus on sorting that wiring out tomorrow, would be super nice to get the wiring all soldered up etc and ready to receive the switches but leave it plenty long so I can leave it sticking out of the dashboard hole, then I can put the dash back in and start getting the car back to normal. I think once I have had the car out on the road it will help me to regain some sanity, because recently it has been 2 weeks of solid brain pain and minimum pleasure or relief! Then I will be quite happy to get stuck in again and wire up the switch panel! Pics later! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Disagree with use of narowband at first. Unnecessary! Dont see how the wideband can be "too good" . If you've got it fitted, and are happy it is works then use it Read up on what AFRs you want to target, edit the target table and save. Tune idle on driveway manually tweaking ve values until its happy before you set out. Do a couple of 15 min logs, ve analyze against your target afr table and upload new msq each time. It will get close very quickly. Then start focusing on particular parts of the map, doing longer logs and gradually you will see the ve values being adjusted less and less. As this happens, change the settings on ve analyze to the "harder" settings. While doing this keep an eye for values that look anomalous and use your discretion to correct. You want values changing smoothly, no big jumps. Sounds long winded but is v fun! Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 Hi quagmire. Hmmm, Nige said that sometimes Wideband can behave in the opposite to what you'd expect if the mixture is really out so it can make matters worse. Conflicting advice on something I know nothing about One thing I do want to look at that I haven't been able to find yet is this AFR target table! Or is that part of MLV? Not been on there yet... I really do need some assistance on finding the component parts of megatune/MLV - there's lots of info on what to basically do, but not a lot on how or where to do it Which is where I struggle!!! Anyway. I am making good progress on the build so will have it out on the road soon enough, then us new friends can try to tune it together! yay! Speaking of which, in typical land rover fashion, I got less done tonight than I expected! Started off by flipping the heater matrix over on my new heater cos I just couldn't fit the hoses the other way round, also I fitted some new, man size hose tails: Then (we) pulled out the Megasquirt loom completely. Had to cut the 6 wires that link the loom to the car, these being battery power and earth, switched power, fuel pump supply and tacho pulse, and the EDIS battery earth which is separate. However this is quite handy because I'm now going to fit a 5 way and 1 way plug from VWP so that the loom is removable for service at any time. Here is the loom on the floor laid out: And here it is taped up, took approximately 2 1/2 hours to remove and tape!! And by the way Nige, that harness tape is incredible!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Will be interested to hear your reviews of the heater when you are up and running . Mine has packed in on the 90 and that looks a tiny! What size is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 Yes will indeed be interesting, I have read only good reviews on it although not many, the seller (t7design.co.uk) claims it performs as well as your average heater twice the size! It is around 15cm square and about 10cm deep but it puts out some serious blow, remarkable actually for basically a 120mm computer fan. I'm just hoping that a v8 powered heater matrix the same size as a piece of toast is enough to demist my screen and MAYBE warm the car, although to exhausts take care of that too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Morning! Not trying to confuse, yes Nige is right that if you get something like a misfire from an overly rich condition then it will read as lean when the unburnt oxygen from that cylinder sails past the sensor. MS sees this "lean" spot and you can end up with it adding more fuel, making things worse , although I have not experienced this myself. To get to the target AFR tables in Megatune you need to set the Lambda AFR settings to use the table, click "More settings> Lambda Sensor Targets" and then change the drop down to "On" for ve table 1. Close this and go back to "More settings" and you will end up with the "AFR Targets for VE Table 1" option now showing. Click this and you will get the table, which you fill out as desired. As with the VE table, change the load and RPM scales so that you have finer control over areas you want to focus on. Then its handy to swap one of the gauges on Megatune to show target AFR and have this next to your actual AFR gauge, at a glance you can see how far out you are at any given time. However, having said all this - as Nige is on hand to help with advice I would just go with his method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 I think Nige was saying that it is better to start with a rough tune to start with. In all fairness this does seem sensible to me. Plus, it will be easier to get my head round it in stages, cos the Wideband setup is fairly complex in itself! Thankyou muchly for your help, a simple step by step is so helpful! You'll all be kept in the loop anyway, nothing will happen to this car without it being on here before and after anyway I assume that seeing as there is 12 rpm buckets a decent place to start is 500rpm increase, so we end up at 6000? Or is it better to have buckets closer spaced at low revs, whereas anything above 4500 is considered flat out WOT, or??? Oh abs by the way it is precisely a week ago I won the WB on eBay, seller has superb feedback etc, basically the courier collected it on Tuesday and its been "out for delivery" since Thursday. Parcel2go using Hermes. What is the point in a small/new courier firm competing for business if they are useless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 EH ? What are you altering the RPM Buckets for, the spark table can be left alone for the mo, just tune the VE Table, buckets as they are and the tuning changes the 144 cell values ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 Thanks Nige. Right so the plan is this: Finish the car, get the idle nice and write down the settings, then go out for a 30min datalog on NB and let MLV have a look at it. I will post it up so we can discuss And then we'll see about fitting the WB and getting it tuned really really tightly, after all that is the point of having the WB sensor, to get it very accurate very quickly Wiring today, ugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Ref the O2 sensor (and indeed any other sensor) - people sometimes don't stop and think about strange values, or they believe what they see on screen over what they can see/hear/smell the engine doing. The O2 sensor senses oxygen, nothing more. Exhaust leaks and misfires can throw it off. Also, it needs to be up to temperature, so cold starts and splashing water can affect the reading too*. It can also become clogged up, so burning oil**, unburnt fuel from mega-rich-spots, or anything else that flies down the exhaust (coolant, mud, water) can coat the sensor and make it read wrong. They also do not like the acids given off by silicone sealants so try to use sensor-safe (Loctite 798 I think) silicone / RTV (most is sensor-safe these days, but not B&Q's own!). And they don't like being dropped on concrete floors either! You probably won't do any harm going straight in with the WB but any glitches (any of the above situations) could knacker or clog it, so being quite cautious about it, starting with the NB just to get in the ballpark is the safer option.*** It's more about the tuning style - if you start with the NB you're not making the assumption that the AFR number on the screen is gospel, you're tweaking the map in by ear/nose/seat-of-pants which is probably a better start, although Nige's base maps are pretty damn good. * = I once auto-tuned my Range Rover on a 10-mile drive through lots of big puddles and it ended up richer than bill gates as the O2 sensor was being doused in cold water every 100yds so the reading never got much away from the bottom, took me a moment to work out why it was getting slower and slower! ** = A mate's Range Rover with dodgy rings there was so much oil down the exhaust the sensor just died in seconds, never stood a chance! You can clean clogged ones with a blowtorch on the tip, bring it to cherry red for a few seconds and let it cool, burns off the gunk. *** = A friend of a friend borrowed a friend's WB, back when they were proper money, having siliconed his IAT sensor into the air intake with bathroom sealant... one dead WB later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 Thankyou for a helpful reply fridge. I understand! Can't wait to get the work sorted so I can get out on the road and put these theories into practice... Today, 9 hours later the fuse/switch wiring has been extended, chopped, split, joined and generally readied and sorted. The heater fitted. The MS loom refitted. The heater ducted, job done Going to order tomorrow from VWP a connector to join the MS loom to its power supply, another relay bracket, some cable and SOME MORE SOLDER!!! Dashboard will be in before you know it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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