Bfg Admits Their Tyres Can't Take Low Pressures

[JimAttrill]

Check out their reply to a complaint on a South African forum at

http://www.hellopeter.com/details.asp?id=41615

[Tonk]

strange

[JimAttrill]

BFG / Michelin are getting a bad reputation here in regard to complaints from customers. One user of MT's was told that "he mustn't use his vehicle on the road because they are off-road tyres" and the opposite one that "you mustn't use AT's off the road because they are a road tyre". Also you mustn't lower the pressure in the tyres because this will cause radial cracking and it's all your fault nanana and we ain't going to pay.

Little wonder that many are switching to Coopers (sold by Dunlop) which work well, look good and are much cheaper than BFG's. The only downside is they don't last as long. Their customer service is excellent. Maybe BFG have been at the top of the pile for too long.

[M005]

I run BFG MT's and whilst impressed with them both on & off road am getting a little tired of having mud / dirt ingress between the bead & rim everytime I give it a proper offroad workout.

I don't alter my pressure when offroad, but despite being at 34psi, both of my rear tyres needed removing from the rims, cleaning & reseating after Tony's b'day winch challenge.

One of them has signs of a fair amount of liquid mud all over the inside of the tyre

The Sandbag works for Avon tyres now & gets a huge discount on tyres, so may look at their MT offerings next time

[JimAttrill]

I am running 235/85 BFG AT's at the moment, and apart from the fact that they are a useless off-road tyre in mud, hopeless in deep sand and last a long time, I will be switching makes next time. They remind me of the early Bridgestone motor bike tyres ca. 1968 or so, which lasted for ever but had no grip whatsoever on British wet and oily roads. The Avon bike tyres of the time gave fantastic grip but didn't last very long. You can't win them all, can you?

[JST]

Mark,

mine were fine after Tonys bash, could it be be due to rims as well??? i left mine at 32/34 psi for the event as well.

[cols110]

I must say I`m pretty impressed with mine, they are great on the road, even in the wet and are`nt to bad offroad, within the limitations of being an AT tyre. My other choice for a similar tyre would be a set of Goodyear MTRs. A bit more agressive but still very good on the road.

[BogMonster]

I've got BFG AT's on the Discovery (2nd set now) and MT's (2 sets one 265/75R16 and one 33x12.50R15) for the 90 and I love 'em.

I run the 90 ones at about 22psi far lower than you are supposed to and the Disco ones are also lower about 25psi front 30psi rear, no problems.

It is interesting to note though, that the AT's fitted to a lot of ex-Japan Pajeros imported here second hand are cracking up in many cases, splitting between the treads. No idea why - maybe ones sold in Japan are made in a different plant and not as good? The ones we sell here ex-UK are brilliant anyway, not that many people buy them as Kumhos etc are much cheaper but the BFGs last.

[M005]

James

Possibly, although rims were new with tyres ~ 2yrs ago.

When I had it happen first time, Chris Watts / Exmoor Beast & others said it was quite common with the new KM BFG MT's.

You obviously weren't trying hard enough

[Neil Marshall]

My 265 ATs started to crack laterally after four years/50,000 miles...thought it was caused by under-inflation but I am beginning to wonder whether they are also affected by UV light. It's not unknown for tyre compounds to be changed after complaints, so I might have had a bad batch.

Still think they're the best on/off road compromise and they last an effing long time.

Neil

[Roman]

Little wonder that many are switching to Coopers (sold by Dunlop) which work well, look good and are much cheaper than BFG's.  The only downside is they don't last as long. 

Jim,

Maybe they don't. But I've already done on a set Cooper Discoverer SST over 50k miles and they still look pretty good. I had done roughly the same mileage on BFG M/T's, then switched to Coopers. So, who cares how long the BFG's last?

[BogMonster]

One problem I have seen on 265/75R16 MT's is splitting round the middle of the tyre after a couple of years when they are fitted to rims too narrow for that tyre width, usually the 5.5" Defender steel rims. Never seen it when they are fitted to 7" rims though.

[eyore]

Not suprising to hear of splitting if fitted to rims narrower than they reccomend.

I Have to say my experience of BFG muds hass been that they are an excellent on and offroad tyre,last set have over 45,000 miles on them and still going.I run 285x75x16s and am convinced the BFGs have the best road manners and best wear of any MT.

[Niall_CSK]

Not being familiar with the BFG's in question I can't comment. All the tyres I have used over the last ten years have had very long life, I usually have to throw them out because of deterioration. If you want scarry wear, most modern fwd hatches don' last more than 18,000 miles.

whether they are also affected by UV light

I have experienced this leaving the Rangie in the same spot when I go away for months at a time. I am told by a local tyre retailer who has always given me good advice that this is a combination of UV wind & weather leaching out the surface silicones that stay in suspension longer when the tyre is flexed.

It was apparent on two tyres only, the other side was up against the garage so sheltered from both sun & weather, and the inner surfaces were fine. These were Scorpion S/T's and admittedly it did take over a year for it to happen & they were over four years old in any case.

I have never experienced debris ingress in mud with the tyres above 1.3 bar, which is about as low as I need for the off roading I do.

I have been considering SecondAir for a number of reasons, does anybody here use them?

[JST]

eyore,

what vehicle are you running those 285/75s on. am i right in thinking they are the same ht as 255/85s?

what rims have you got and does it make a noticable difference to the lock to lock?

have you tried ATs as well? or know who makes ATs this size?

[eyore]

Yes,assuming both are on 16" rims there is only about 3mm difference in diameter,they are both the metric equivalents to 33inch.

I am running them on a 90 fitted with 6.5" freestyle alloys, at 27psi ,it does restrict lock slightly.

Havent a clue about ATs inn those sizes,but I'd be suprised if they werent avilable.

[JST]

cheers eyore, something possibly for the future when my trac edges wear out (70k on them now) i am after an AT the same ht as 255/85s hence the questions.

[imspanners]

If you want scarry wear, most modern fwd hatches don' last more than 18,000 miles.

Tell me about it!

My Mondeo goes through a set in 6000 miles!

(They do stick like glue though)!

[JonR]

I was at my local dealership yesterday and noticed an N reg 90 that had pre KM 265 MT's fitted. All four tyres were cracking around the circumference where the tread meets the side wall and on one tyre, where there had been a slight contact with something like a kerb, a small amount of delamination had occurred. The rubber looked old and perished, like an old crossply at the back of a dusty garage, but without the cobwebs.

Incidently, could someone tell me why Landrover never offered the 265 size as an option on the 110?

A question appeared in this months LRO about the suitability of 265's for 110's and whoever provided the answer said that 235's would be better but offered (not supprisingly) no explanations as to why. Its just that my tyres will need replacing shortly and I'm now going through the agony of deciding which size to fit and had, until this, decided on 265's.

Life was much simpler when I was a lad. If you had a LWB you fitted 7.50's and the only descision to make was what tread pattern to go for.

Jon.

[LR90]

James,

285/75x16 is a very common size esp amongst the bigger jap 4x4s so there lots of choice for ATs.

Eyore,

good to know you can get away with 6.5" rims. 8" is the min recommended by BFG but I was hoping to fit them on my old 7" white spokes.

[rick]

BFG / Michelin are getting a bad reputation here in regard to complaints from customers. One user of MT's was told that "he mustn't use his vehicle on the road because they are off-road tyres" and the opposite one that "you mustn't use AT's off the road because they are a road tyre". Also you mustn't lower the pressure in the tyres because this will cause radial cracking and it's all your fault nanana and we ain't going to pay.

Little wonder that many are switching to Coopers (sold by Dunlop) which work well, look good and are much cheaper than BFG's. The only downside is they don't last as long.

funny, its Cooper who this is happening to here. People are ripping tread blocks off ST's, and Cooper wont warranty them "as you used them off road, they aren't designed for that" you really have to push hard to get some pro rata compensation. Cooper actually acknowledged that there is a problem by introducing an ST/C version, which is a softer compound in limited sizes to offset the tread chipping/tearing.

BTW, Cooper are quite a bit more expensive than BFG here.

Having had a set of Cooper ST's on SWMBO Patrol, I was very concerned at all the micro cracking in the sidewall near the bead area, virtually from new. This never progressed, or appeared to make the tyre dangerous, but it was very, very disconcerting.

Cooper also push that they outlast the opposition, and offer a warranty to meet XXXXXX km, yet it turns out to be virtually worthless, as you have to reside in a state capital, have your tyres rotated and balanced every XX km, and have a steering alignment performed by the selling or another Cooper dealer (at your cost), etc, etc. If you live in the country, no warranty.

I'm probably being a little hard, as quite a few people have had good experiences with Cooper and their warranty, but you seem to hear 10 times more adverse comments about Cooper than BFG on the boards here.

When the BFG KO and KM tyres came out, (3-4 years ago ??) there were lots of compounding and carcass problems here, and BFG/Michelin seem to have overcome them. You hear very few bad comments these days, and there are lots of BFG's running around the country side here. I've been wrapped in the performance of my MT's on the 'fender, on and off road, and we are using AT's on the Patrol. The AT's aren't a patch on the Cooper ST in mud, but it hardly ever rains here and the vehicle is primarily a horse tower, so who cares ? The performance on gravel and bitumen seems on a par, they are wearing well and no sidewall cracking.

[BogMonster]

Incidently, could someone tell me why Landrover never offered the 265 size as an option on the 110?

I believe it was because they reduced steering lock making an already appalling turning circle even worse!

I now have 265s on my 90 and they rub on the radius arms when turning so definitely do reduce steering lock.

A shame they now fit Grabber TR 235's because it was the nearest LR ever came to fitting a decent tyre as std

[JonR]

I believe it was because they reduced steering lock making an already appalling turning circle even worse!

Not a good idea then, with wolf rims on a 110.

Jon.

[JimAttrill]

South African 90s came out with 265's. But there weren't many of them. I have 235's on my 110. The 265 is too big for the 110, and if you fix the stops for this tye the turining circle is terrible. It (apparently) also hits the rear bodywork, though I only offer this at second hand.

[JonR]

The 265 is too big for the 110

Right, so this narrows the choice down to 235 or 255. If the 255 isn't as wide as a 265 but has a greater diameter, would it reduce the steering lock by a similar amount?

Then of course there is the additional affect on the gearing as well. I can feel a compromise coming on.

Jon.