Newbie looking for a bit of advice

[forestboy1978]

Hello,

I'm just in the process of replacing my car and am struggling on which way to go. I have about 6-8k in about a month available and just cannot decide whether to buy a van or a defender.

I run fencing/ gardening business with my bro and we have a crewcab tipper which so far is serving us well so I don't really need anything massive but my car is about to go to car heaven as it's just not worth putting it through the MOT although it deserves it for it's put up with. I'm looking for a vehicle to use for business and personal for at least 6 months to a year before buying a car for personal and then using this vehicle for business only.

I have multiple reasons for wanting to buy a defender and perhaps they are misguided and I'd be happy to be put straight on any of my thinking.

- I like the look of them (not up for debate :-))

- They are the best off roaders you can get arguably

- They are fairly easy to work on for a novice if you are happy to get grubby (200tdi)

- If they are looked after they will go on and on. Not such a bad investment as far as vehicles go.

- As long as the chasis is in good shape what else could possibly go wrong ;-)

- They can cost money and you can spend serious money on them but not as temperamental as a vivaro for example which is all I could afford instead really that would be suitable.

- They are good for towing? 2.5 200tdi 90" wheel base?

- It doesn't matter if you get them dirty :-)

I know the mpg is not good but I'll take the hit on that. What I don't want is to spend 8 grand on a vivaro or renault traffic and have some light come on on the dashboard and find that I've got to spend 4k to get that red light to turn off again if you know what I mean. "If" I could afford a VW transported I probably wouldn't be asking these questions.

I figure if I need to move house or find I need a vans space I could always buy and store a box trailer for those occasions. I really only need to put maybe a bag or 2 of green waste on the roofrack, some trimmers or a lawn mower in the back and a large tool box and my dog and for a relatively short time do about 250 miles per week max.

I cannot get my head round the prices of defenders. It seems if you want one made in 2000+ it'll cost you 5-10k more than one made in the 90s despite appearing to have the same condition and sometimes even higher mileage. Is this cos of the newer more economical engines? More bells and whistles? More things to go wrong? I hope so as my price range is pretty bedrock fixed at a max of 8k pushing it.

I really appreciate any advice anyone can give me.

BTW I like this one. It's looks pretty ;-)

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201406064808602/sort/default/usedcars/model/defender/radius/50/postcode/so181bt/page/3/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/make/land_rover?logcode=p

[sighnbox]

Run and don't stop while you still can LOL or you will end up like the rest of us Landy fans ... skint..... constantly working on it.........and will have a fantastic tool collection lol

[cookie64]

there are a couple of factors to consider when buying a landy

yes look for rust and any patches already on the chassis but also look at the rest of its over all condition

i would say that the landy you linked to is a little overpriced even with the galvanised chassis but the main thing you should look for is that it is standard.

if you are using this as a car and a buisness vehicle then the last thing you want is a lifted vehicle as lifting just causes other components to fail.

[Happyoldgit]

Don't be suckered into buying something with lots of bells and whistles because it looks the biz. For business use I'd be talking to my accountant first.

[FridgeFreezer]

Most people are idiots, hence the more "modifications" someone's done, the more trouble you're buying. Modifications attached to a vehicle are NEVER worth what they cost to buy, in fact usually max. 10% of their RRP.

[Retroanaconda]

My comments in red.

I have multiple reasons for wanting to buy a defender and perhaps they are misguided and I'd be happy to be put straight on any of my thinking.

- I like the look of them (not up for debate :-)) - As do I

- They are the best off roaders you can get arguably - Yeah I would agree that for out-of-the-box off-road ability they're certainly one of the best.

- They are fairly easy to work on for a novice if you are happy to get grubby (200tdi) - Agreed, Land Rovers in general are fairly easy to work on.

- If they are looked after they will go on and on. Not such a bad investment as far as vehicles go. - Agreed.

- As long as the chasis is in good shape what else could possibly go wrong ;-) - Well a fair bit... but you are right in that the chassis is a key component and something that you want to ensure is in good shape.

- They can cost money and you can spend serious money on them but not as temperamental as a vivaro for example which is all I could afford instead really that would be suitable. - They can certainly cost money, that is for sure.

- They are good for towing? 2.5 200tdi 90" wheel base? - Yes good tow vehicles. 200Tdis could perhaps do with a bit more power for bigger trailers on hills etc. but generally they will pull just about anything. Td5s make better tow cars than Tdis in my opinion, if you will be doing heavier stuff.

- It doesn't matter if you get them dirty :-) - Just keep the underside clean, trapped mud etc. on/in the chassis will accelerate corrosion.

I know the mpg is not good but I'll take the hit on that. What I don't want is to spend 8 grand on a vivaro or renault traffic and have some light come on on the dashboard and find that I've got to spend 4k to get that red light to turn off again if you know what I mean. "If" I could afford a VW transported I probably wouldn't be asking these questions.

You should get 30mpg out of a Tdi Land Rover without any problems, maybe a bit less if it's loaded up all the time and obviously less if towing. Td5s tend to do a few mpg less but will still return good economy.

I figure if I need to move house or find I need a vans space I could always buy and store a box trailer for those occasions. I really only need to put maybe a bag or 2 of green waste on the roofrack, some trimmers or a lawn mower in the back and a large tool box and my dog and for a relatively short time do about 250 miles per week max.

I cannot get my head round the prices of defenders. It seems if you want one made in 2000+ it'll cost you 5-10k more than one made in the 90s despite appearing to have the same condition and sometimes even higher mileage. Is this cos of the newer more economical engines? More bells and whistles? More things to go wrong? I hope so as my price range is pretty bedrock fixed at a max of 8k pushing it.

Roughly speaking the 200Tdi ran from 1990 - 1994, 300Tdi from 1994 to 1998 and then the Td5 from 1998 to 2006. I wouldn't worry too much about what engine you get, as above they will all return reasonable economy - the benefit of the later Td5 is more oomph and a smoother experience as it's a 5-cylinder. Similarly I wouldn't get too hung up on mileage, all these engines (and the others) are capable of high mileages (200,000 plus) without giving serious issues if looked after. Buy on condition more than anything else as others have suggested, a thorough record of servicing is a plus (though many do it themselves so won't have book stamps etc.) and as the others also point out you generally are better off going for a standard vehicle that has not been messed about with. Land Rovers, perhaps because they are so easy to modify/fiddle with, suffer from over-zealous modifications dealt out by people armed with electrical tape, cable ties and scotch-locks - with no idea what they are doing.

From 2002-onwards electric windows, central locking and other goodies were options - but all these can be retro-fitted with relative ease into earlier vehicles if desired. I have a 1992 200Tdi fairly basic spec car but I have added remote central locking, cruise control, sound proofing etc. to make it more enjoyable to drive.

I really appreciate any advice anyone can give me.

BTW I like this one. It's looks pretty ;-)

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201406064808602/sort/default/usedcars/model/defender/radius/50/postcode/so181bt/page/3/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/make/land_rover?logcode=p

For use as a work car for a gardening business you don't need a snorkel, or a fancy front bumper, or huge sticky-out wheels, or acres of chequer plate. For that use personally I would be looking for a 110 hard-top - maybe ply-line the inside so I could chuck strimmers/chainsaws/mowers etc. in the back without worrying about damage/mess. A strimmer/brush-cutter is a tight fit in a 90, has to come over the bulkhead between the seats.

Of course if you want all the adornments it won't stop it doing its job, and plenty of people have them on purely for show and make no secret of that - if that is what you want then fair enough. When I first bought my 90 I went and put a snorkel on it, adorned it with a winch etc. but slowly and surely it's found its way back to being pretty much bog standard as I've realised that for an all-purpose vehicle that can get me to work and back regardless of weather, take me round work sites in the forest if necessary, do trips greenlaning or further afield, run down the motorway, tow 2.5 tonnes of firewood, all without breaking a sweat... Land Rover got it about right in the first place.

[Sharpe]

My two pence worth is simple....a Landy is a hobby, if you dont want a vehicle to also be a hobby in your spare time - go for a van. I get as much enjoyment reading several forums as tinkering with the actual car.....I spend a large amount of time reading, tinkering, changing, fixing, servicing, and I dont do many miles. If you could see yourself going to a landy show for the day and thinking its the best day of the year then a landy is for you. If you want to "just add fuel" its not the vehicle for you (not in that price range unless your really lucky and hold out until you find a perfect one). As I said, my two pence worth - not worth much!!

[Cheshire Dave]

Ok, I can't add much and I'm only a newby here, see my posts " something sensible for retirement"

I've had various landys but not for some while, it gets in the blood!. I just didn't want another boring Transit so wether this is the right decision who knows but I can't wait!!!

Dave

[slihp]

My contribution

dont pay extra because it has been modified. mines has been modified and no issues with them but its not the best to dive for business but it dose look great.

make sure chassis is clean as others have said.

thay can cost money, my cylinder head just went costing 2k but after 6 years of no real expensei still think that's good.

i would def go for a 200, 300 or TD5

Ive had min 8 years and its the best 8k ive spent and well worth it

:-)

[AMB]

I'm with Sharpe. LRs do tend to be a hobby or become one. If it didn't you would soon get annoyed with some of the idiosyncrasies.

If you need something for business then let business criteria drive your choice. If you decide on an LR then condition wins every time.

[forestboy1978]

Hi guys. I just came across this thread randomly and wanted to apologise for not responding and say thanks for the feedback.

Reason being, I totally forgot as I went with a van in the end shortly after posting. It wasn't my first choice, I'd still one day love a defender but I got a vivaro, newish with warranty. It was the wise move I think. I went with the head instead of the heart. So far, van is going well for me and it has more space and suitability for my work just about. Perhaps a little more MPG too.

One day, when money isn't so tight and I have some "buffering" if needs be, I'll buy one. Would have preferred a transporter to a vivaro too but they are too expensive unless you go ultra high mileage. Got my van ex lease, in mint at 22,000 for under 10k in the end with warranty and it's currently pretty good for biz. Don't get the opportunity to drive around fields stood on the roof hedge cutting in it but you can't have it all.

Cheers again.