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Totally OT (sorry) rural broadband


freeagent
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my folks live in a rural area, near southend, essex... they've been trying to get broadband put on to their house for ages but BT always insisted it wasn't possible. :(

then they went into the carphone warehouse and Talktalk insisted they could do it... so they get onto BT, tell them they want to leave and BT suddenly decide they can do it. :rolleyes:

on wednesday a BT chap arrived to install their broadband and get it all going (they payed the £50 install and set up fee as at least BT couldn't blame them if it didn't work) the BT engineer couldn't do it, but reckoned it would be possible, if an adjustment was made back at the exchange.

then later on wednesday eve BT phoned and said they couldn't do broadband as they were 14k from the exchange and there is no 'copper overlay on the fibre optic cable that feeds their property'

so... any ideas what to do...? has anyone else discovered any cunning broadband solutions for the sticks?

what is all that copper overlay business about? :huh:

my father-in-law lays fibre optic cables for BT and reckons its all bulls**t.... and BT are just fobbing them off as it'll cost them money to do it... :angry:

LR content... i'd be able to post on this forum a lot quicker when i go to stay with them!! ;)

cheers,

m@tt :)

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my folks live in a rural area, near southend, essex... they've been trying to get broadband put on to their house for ages but BT always insisted it wasn't possible. :(

then they went into the carphone warehouse and Talktalk insisted they could do it... so they get onto BT, tell them they want to leave and BT suddenly decide they can do it. :rolleyes:

on wednesday a BT chap arrived to install their broadband and get it all going (they payed the £50 install and set up fee as at least BT couldn't blame them if it didn't work) the BT engineer couldn't do it, but reckoned it would be possible, if an adjustment was made back at the exchange.

then later on wednesday eve BT phoned and said they couldn't do broadband as they were 14k from the exchange and there is no 'copper overlay on the fibre optic cable that feeds their property'

so... any ideas what to do...? has anyone else discovered any cunning broadband solutions for the sticks?

what is all that copper overlay business about? :huh:

my father-in-law lays fibre optic cables for BT and reckons its all bulls**t.... and BT are just fobbing them off as it'll cost them money to do it... :angry:

LR content... i'd be able to post on this forum a lot quicker when i go to stay with them!! ;)

cheers,

m@tt :)

Tell BT they will find plenty of copper inside the unexploded bomb found at the end of my street yesterday. Just tell them they will have to get it themselves!

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my folks live in a rural area, near southend, essex... they've been trying to get broadband put on to their house for ages but BT always insisted it wasn't possible. :(

then they went into the carphone warehouse and Talktalk insisted they could do it... so they get onto BT, tell them they want to leave and BT suddenly decide they can do it. :rolleyes:

on wednesday a BT chap arrived to install their broadband and get it all going (they payed the £50 install and set up fee as at least BT couldn't blame them if it didn't work) the BT engineer couldn't do it, but reckoned it would be possible, if an adjustment was made back at the exchange.

then later on wednesday eve BT phoned and said they couldn't do broadband as they were 14k from the exchange and there is no 'copper overlay on the fibre optic cable that feeds their property'

so... any ideas what to do...? has anyone else discovered any cunning broadband solutions for the sticks?

what is all that copper overlay business about? :huh:

my father-in-law lays fibre optic cables for BT and reckons its all bulls**t.... and BT are just fobbing them off as it'll cost them money to do it... :angry:

LR content... i'd be able to post on this forum a lot quicker when i go to stay with them!! ;)

cheers,

m@tt :)

BIT OUT THERE

But in Aus because rual is really rual here. They have Broadband and phone lines that travel over the power lines . So no need for telstra (aus BT) to put cables down. But not done by telstra. so as you can imagine they are not happy about it

Don't know if they have that sort of thing in the UK yet

Here is the link to the company that does it

Tastel

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other than seeing whether broadband is supposed to be available, i used ww.broadband checker.co.uk but that has the usual covering clauses on it, the only other suggestion i would make is satellite broadband more expensive to install bu the monthly costs are around the same

may not be much help but all i can suggest with my limited understanding of these things :unsure:

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It could be bull (BT sales are not renowned for their technical accuracy) or it could not be - being 14k from the exchange is a flippin' long way so you may well be fed over TPON, which extends copper lines over a fibre-optic cable to a street cabinet or small local mini-exhange in a hut, cabinet, container or back of a lorry (no, really).

This is fine when all people want is voice (64k), ISDN-2 (128k) and C/DWSS 2Mbits and upwards (dedicated copper or fibre, big £££) but the TPON equipment has no capacity to do DSL signalling (it was around before DSL was) so you simply cannot have it unless someone installs a DSLAM (ADSL equipment) near your house. TBH at 14Km you'd be lucky to see better than ISDN-2 128K speeds anyway.

If you are on 14Km of copper then you may have amplification / regeneration in the line, which again means a piece of equipment in your line that cannot pass the frequencies of signal required for DSL to work.

From BT's point of view obviously they don't want to drag 14km of copper into the ground to provide one DSL circuit at £20/month (and which probably won't be very reliable or fast) so for now you're stuck.

In future, everyone will get DSL eventually as BT upgrades and moves away from analogue lines, however the target end date for this is 2012 and even then your dialtone will probably still be analogue.

Edit: The "Adjustment in the exchange" could well be an attempt to move them off of TPON onto copper, you may find an area will have the odd bit of copper alongside the TPON fibre but if there's no spare lines then you're again out of luck. Also, no disrespect but the guys who install lines tend to have a rather shaky understanding of how the technology works and can give some slightly skewed explanations to customers - I've seen transverse copper cable for digital circuits labelled up as "fibre optic" because digital circuits are fibre optic, innit? <_<

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Down here in mid wales we are pretty rural but because we are just under 6 miles from the exchange we can (just) get BB. Our neighbours (1 mile further up the valley) also have BB but they are the last who can get it. It seems 6 miles is the limit on current cabling. Our speed is a max of 512 kps but that is so much faster than dial up i am not complaining.

Your folks may need to do what we did in our community and that is get together with everyone in the area and get a petition going insisting that BT enable them. I think if they can get enough signatories then BT are more or less obliged to do something about it.

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as the other chap said its nothing to do with petitioning bt. the technology simply cant do it

standard adsl can go over about 1-2km, uk uses radsl allowing variable speeds and longer distance but even this is struggling over 10km - 14km would simply be unreliable and plain slow

one think to remember though, 56k dialup is basically 36k dialup with data compression, u will never get 56k and normally it will operate nearer 36 - an isdn line is 128k so it will be a lot faster that what u have

or long distance wireless is an option but u'd need line of sight and specialist hardware which wont b cheap

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Have they considered using a 3G mobile phone as a modem, or a 3G datacard? It's what I do when visiting my Mum's house, and it works surprisingly well.

Admittedly, I get mine free through work (for a mobile operator ;) ), but if you compare the deals you'll find that some :rolleyes: are much cheaper than you would probably expect them to be - and the coverage is pretty good too.

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wow... thanks guys, lots to read. :)

fridge, i guess you work for BT then... thankyou for your reply, just to fill you in a bit more, my folks live on a private estate, called foulness island, just on the other side of southend, essex.

its not a posh private estate, but a desolate piece of land owned by the MOD, from whom they rent a house.

there is a fibre optic cable that comes onto the island, and supposedly terminates around 1k from their house, they, and several other people have spoken to the MOD about all this on numerous occasions, and the answer from the MOD is, 'we're not interested in broadband for ourselves, as its not secure enough' so they wont do anything to help. (please bear in mind the people they speak to at the MOD are complete numpties that wouldn't know their ISDN from there dial-up) :rolleyes:

the MOD have also stated that its 'the wrong sort of fibre optic' for broadband... <_<

as the fibre comes so close to their house, i just dont understand why BT cant/ wont sort it out. :(

thanks again guys, you've been stars as always.

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remote in your area Mark? cant be that remote there is a pub within driving distance!

BT do seem to wait for enough people to want broadband before they enable an exchange, no idea what that envolves though.

i was wireless BB for a while, it worked well from a local computer shop that offers the service. i went to a landline as the extra cost is offset by the cheaper calls when i dont use my mobile.

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It's not uncommon for people in remote areas in the US to find their nearest neighbour who can have broadband, then setting up their own link between the two houses, either with wires or wifi. Offer to pay the other houses broadband costs and they may agree to an antenna on their house in return.

There are a few companies selling 1w and more power amplifiers for WiFi - and you can get some pretty high gain antennas. I think, you could achieve a couple of miles line of sight quite easily.

Si

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probably doesnt apply to you but from what i understand from my BT broadband saga is that if between you and the exchange there is any aluminium there is no chance of getting it for technical reasons as the aluminium cant take the increased line speed.

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I know that JamesM works for T-Mobile and that was what I was going to suggest. I do not know all of the ins and outs (I am sure James would respond to a PM) but I know that T-mobile offer an unlimited BB package to add to any existing tarrif for £10/month. In other words, fully mobile wireless BB for £10/month on top of your regular phone bill.

More here

Chris

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I know that JamesM works for T-Mobile and that was what I was going to suggest. I do not know all of the ins and outs (I am sure James would respond to a PM) but I know that T-mobile offer an unlimited BB package to add to any existing tarrif for £10/month. In other words, fully mobile wireless BB for £10/month on top of your regular phone bill.

More here

Chris

That sounds good. Despite having a business ADSL connection with low contention, there is very little difference in speed between using my mobile (Only GPRS, not 3G) and DSL. There is more latency, but once the data starts flowing, the throughput is pretty good.

I'd say that a mobile solution would be fine for everything apart from playing games! (where you need low latency)

Si

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Aluminium cables have poor RF characteristics so don't carry high frequencies very well, which is obviously going to cause a problem where BT went through a phase of putting a lot of aluminium cables in :( it's not that it definitely won't work, it's just a bleedin' miracle if it does :P usually we're lucky to get even DACS (2 lines down one wire) to work reliably on it and that's only ~128k.

Of course BT want a few people to sign up for broadband before they will spend thousands installing a DSLAM in the nearest exchange - the things need space, power, cooling, a fibre-optic ATM link back to the main network, capacity on the ATM switch, management... plus you have to cable the thing in, find space on the distribution frame for the cables/blocks etc. you could easily be looking at £10k+ to make a small rural exchange "broadband ready" so if you're not going to get a decent number of subscribers why bother on a loss-leader?

Freeagent - how did you guess I work for BT? :D It sounds very much like you are on TPON or even a private PSTN switch (PABX - like a glorified office switchboard). This is indeed the "wrong type" of fibre, although technically it's the box on the end that's wrong. The fact there's fibre near you means nothing, if you want a fibre link into your house you're looking at thousands per year plus hundreds to install and then you'll get 1 or 2Mbit/s. That doesn't include internet connectivity - usually these circuits run fixed point-to-point so you'd have to have the other end routed to an ISP and pay their subs too, for a leased line like that it's not gonna be cheap and you can forget about switching providers without some major bills.

If it's an MOD complex then there may well be copper in the area, but at that distance you're never going to get fast net access for normal prices. Radio may well be the cheapest option, if you want a laugh you could try phoning BT to see about fibre (you may need to find an ISP who will cater for a fibre connection first) but you may wish to sit down before they tell you the price :(

Actually, these might give you some ideas:

BT MegaStream Ethernet price document

BTnet

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thanks again guys,

well, some of the other neighbours have been on to BT, bending their ear about broadband, and today my mum got a phonecall... BT are going to upgrade the connection/ drag some copper in, or what ever they need to do.... and everyone who wants it can have broadband in 8-10 weeks :D:)

so we'll see if they stick to their word...

cheers

m@tt.

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They may have a more local point they can drag copper from, may even have a more local exchange they can install a DSLAM in.

We have this locally with a business park, they put everyone on TPON from the existing exchange 5 miles up the road, they then put an exchange-in-a-trailer in on the business park with JUST PSTN in it (and called it the same name as the original exchange which caused no end of nightmares with the planners) so people were being told they could have BB when they couldn't. Then they got round to installing a more permanent porta-cabin with DSLAMS in so everyone could have BB eventually. They called that the same name too, so chaos rules :rolleyes:

Hopefully you'll be sorted now, if you are still 14km away you may not get the full 8Mb though :ph34r:

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