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R380 Questions about differences


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I was wondering if someone could help with my queries about the differences between the Disco and Defender R380 gearboxes please:

1. Can the Defender gearshift mechanism be swapped to the Disco box? Is it simple to do?

2. Is the bell housing different on a Defender version or are the bell housings the same?

3. When fitted is there any difference in length between the Disco version and the Defender?

It seems that Disco boxes are easier to find locally but I can't figure out what the difference is between the two.

I need the Defender gear linkage for the application it's going into as it needs to be as far forward as possible and the whole thing also needs to be as short as possible.

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I was wondering if someone could help with my queries about the differences between the Disco and Defender R380 gearboxes please:

1. Can the Defender gearshift mechanism be swapped to the Disco box? Is it simple to do?

2. Is the bell housing different on a Defender version or are the bell housings the same?

3. When fitted is there any difference in length between the Disco version and the Defender?

It seems that Disco boxes are easier to find locally but I can't figure out what the difference is between the two.

I need the Defender gear linkage for the application it's going into as it needs to be as far forward as possible and the whole thing also needs to be as short as possible.

1) Yes, but you need one of these... http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/diy-rebuild-kits/r380-rebuild-kits/selector-rail-adapter-yolk.html

2) Read yourself http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=62219

3) same as above.

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Thank you so much that was exactly what I needed to know, thanks for the Ashcroft link.

disco and defender R380's are the same length, but there is the option to change the bell housing and input shaft to a stumpy version which makes it a direct swap for an LT77

Yes I looked at the stumpy version but it seems it only saves 30mm and for the price by the time you've bought all the bits needed for the conversion, I think the Rakeway shorter rear for the LT230 that saves 70mm is a better option. Obviously having both would be great but that would be one expensive R380 :)

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30mm?? It should save more than that I'm sure. It's been a while since I looked at an R380 bellhousing I admit, but I've got LT77 fitted here and I'm sure there's more than 30mm difference.

I did look at the Rakeway kit when I was having issues with my 109, IIRC they saved the space by not having a speedo drive

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30mm?? It should save more than that I'm sure. It's been a while since I looked at an R380 bellhousing I admit, but I've got LT77 fitted here and I'm sure there's more than 30mm difference.

I did look at the Rakeway kit when I was having issues with my 109, IIRC they saved the space by not having a speedo drive

This is the link the information is from: http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/manual-gearboxes/short-bellhousing-r380.html

'The "Stumpy" or short bellhousing R380 was made by Landrover as a direct replacement for the 4 Cyl LT77. The bellhousing is 30mm shorter than the LT77 one as the 5th speed housing on the R380 is 30mm longer.'

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Thanks for the info!

At least I now know the Disco and Defender boxes are the same length and the rakeway does away with the speedo, I wasn't aware of that.

Having looked the stubby R380 is no good for my application because the clutch housing is on the engine.

So next question is: On this link http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/gearboxes.htm it states that 'The V8 and Tdi R380 gearboxes have different bell housings and primary input shafts. They will interchange by swapping these parts.'

Does anyone know whether that is true? And what are the differences? I need the V8 type so are there different part codes needed to change a TDI box to a V8 box?

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Don't know about the interchangeability of input shaft, but the V8 box input & bellhousing is different to the TDi - this is my V8 R380 as fitted to my 109, the one fitted to the 127 looks identical although I've not been over it with a tape measure:

my_r380.jpg

There must be a point when you might just as well phone up Ashcrofts and buy the correct gearbox rather than endless mix & match & strip & rebuild... that's what led me to the photo above during my build, in the scheme of things it saved soooo much time & farting about to just have the correct thing arrive & bolt in.

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Well unless I'm mistaken on the 4 cylinder engines there is a housing that attaches to the back of the engine, you then bolt the flywheel over the top of this housing and then the gearbox bolts to this.

Fridge appreciate your comments but this is a project so I don't want to spend lots of money until I know it works. Hence asking on here.

Anyone have a picture of a V8 bell housing and TDI housing side by side.

And next query is is there a length difference again between TDI and V8.

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If you tell ashcroft's what you want to do, they'll know exactly which box you need!

Seems a bit cheeky if I'm not going to buy a box from them but will try calling them tomorrow as I'm running out of ideas.

Right, so you've got a V8 then.

No I don't have a V8 but the bolt pattern on the engine is exactly the same as a Land Rover V8 gearbox.

I was under the impression that all the bolt patterns were the same, I was only recently told they were different which is why I'm asking these questions because if a TDI bolt pattern is different to a V8 then the R380 I have being delivered from a 300 TDI disco isn't going to fit...........which is going to cause me an issue.

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A V8 and 300Tci bell housing bolt pattern/shape are completely different I'm afraid.

If you're getting a Disco 300Tdi box delivered you'll need to have the bellhousing (easy) and input shaft (more involved) changed. And if it's going into a Defender you'll need to either swap the shifter housing/rods or use the Ashcrofts adaptor thing.

It's worth noting that there are internal differences too, the V8 boxes had a slightly higher 5th gear ratio than the Tdi ones.

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A V8 and 300Tci bell housing bolt pattern/shape are completely different I'm afraid.

If you're getting a Disco 300Tdi box delivered you'll need to have the bellhousing (easy) and input shaft (more involved) changed. And if it's going into a Defender you'll need to either swap the shifter housing/rods or use the Ashcrofts adaptor thing.

It's worth noting that there are internal differences too, the V8 boxes had a slightly higher 5th gear ratio than the Tdi ones.

Thanks that was what I needed to know. Now I know there are definite differences I can look into what can be done about it.

My problem is the length the box that's coming out is a short LT95 so I kind of need to replicate this, it is seeming more and more like this isn't going to be possible though but that's why I started the thread.

I was told last night that the V8 R380 is even longer than a TDI R380, it has a longer bell housing and obviously a longer input shaft!

So does someone have a V8 R380 that they could measure from bell housing to rear prop flange face? I can then go and physically measure the space available and see if I can shoe horn it in at all.

It's a steep learning curve and I'm learning all the time especially over the last few days, it would be so much easier if I had my own scrap yard and I could compare all the parts.

Thanks for all the help so far much appreciated.

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I think there were some stubby V8 boxes, possibly, although it may be that the shortest solution is to use the "wrong" gearbox with a stubby bellhousing and a V8 adapter plate (typically 2" thick, ish). Then you only have the shifter end to worry about.

If you fitted a serpentine V8 and used electric fans you could probably move it forward enough to fit, there's a fair bit of space in a defender engine bay.

I'll try and get under the ambulance with a tape measure over the weekend and see what I can see.

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