Jump to content

Tuko's Series Hybrid 88 Gets LT77 & LT230


Recommended Posts

Time has finally come to install the LT77 & LT230 that have been in the garage for the past year. Unlike some of the conversions that I have read on the internet where it's been done over a weekend, I started last Saturday and finished it today. (8 days) Also I'm forced to do all the work outside in the driveway as the hybrid is too tall to get into the garage.

Not having access to any form of lifts I removed the original transmission, overdrive and transfer case from underneath but thankfully the Designa coil spring chassis has a removable cross member. First order of business was to replace the clutch plate with a Defender HD unit VQB000130.

post-194-0-45416200-1440356327_thumb.jpeg

Before starting to make any mounts I mocked up the LT77/LT230 in the hybrid so that I get some measurements. Getting the transmission in was not easy with the seatbox still installed, but I could lift the transmission into place once I removed the lever housing on the top.

post-194-0-14468400-1440357159_thumb.jpeg

With the removable cross member installed I decided that the best plan for the 2 mounts is to utilize the original brackets that are on the removable cross member. Making the new mounts this way was easier for me and ensured that the mounts were not bigger than required. I've seen where several members on the forum have used the Series rubber mounts, I decided to use the Defender rubber mounts instead as they are considerably larger.

post-194-0-21875700-1440357360_thumb.jpeg

post-194-0-12548700-1440357407_thumb.jpeg

post-194-0-27835000-1440357437_thumb.jpeg

Next I moved on to the front cross member which I've read that it needs to be "scalloped" for the front propshaft. Not really knowing how much I'm to take I decided that I'll cut out 5cm depth on the front of the cross member and at the rear I stayed parallel with the weld. With removing a fair amount of metal I used 10mm thick C channel which I hope will add strength to this location once it was welded in.

post-194-0-14578500-1440357901_thumb.jpeg

post-194-0-64565400-1440357932_thumb.jpeg

Next I replaced the speedo drive gear to BLUE and installed the Series speedo cable.

Next came the propshafts.......

post-194-0-90943400-1440358075_thumb.jpeg

I had arranged that a local machinist was going to cut down the Range Rover propshafts but on Monday when I went in to see him I got nothing but belly aching complaints and excuses from the bugger. Finally he agree's that he will do them but I had to wait for at least 4~5 weeks before he would look at them. Well that BS just doesn't and didn't wash with me! I thanked him for the waste of time and came home where I searched on the internet for propshaft services. Taking the suggestions from here and what I could find myself I called 4 shops for prices. Finally I settled on North West Propshafts who gave me the best price.

So it went like this, Tuesday I ordered the propshafts, Wednesday afternoon I received a phone call saying that they were already finished and I promptly paid for them. Thursday 14:30 the deliveryman was knocking at the front door with the propshafts in hand. Manchester, England to Nybro, Sweden in 24 hours!!!!!

post-194-0-68455600-1440358594_thumb.jpg

Moving on I used the tips on this forum for the hand brakes using the original Series lever. On the original swivel that mounts to the frame I moved the top eyelet so that it didn't bind with the new transfer case mount. Also I used a combination of Series and Defender rods to complete the linkage. The package overall is tidy and very similar to original but I was not very pleased with it. First the hand lever I could not get enough resistance on it from the spring plus I couldn't get the brake shoes working enough before the hand lever reached it's max travel length. With everything adjusted to their max I was getting binding of the brake shoes in the drums. So in the end, yesterday I removed all the linkage and I will try to buy a Defender hand lever and hand brake wire then install them.

post-194-0-33447600-1440359202_thumb.jpg

With nearly everything installed, I took this picture to show that in the end I didn't lose more than 10~20mm ground clearance at the hand brake.

post-194-0-75757600-1440359500_thumb.jpeg

Here is the new rear propshaft installed on the Hybrid.

post-194-0-37201600-1440359609_thumb.jpg

Yesterday and today I was working on the interior, first I installed a difflock & low range light light on the dash. I figured that I had the switches on the transmission so why not use them. Then mounted the Defender tunnel cover and made new floor panels. Like so many here I had to trim the rear of the tunnel cover so that it would fit. Plus the difflock lever it was not fully engaging high gears so I had to hammer on the inner trim of the tunnel cover so that I got the clearance needed.

post-194-0-36845700-1440360107_thumb.jpg

post-194-0-95268300-1440360141_thumb.jpg

post-194-0-46976600-1440360171_thumb.jpg

post-194-0-09404800-1440360191_thumb.jpg

This conversion took me basically 8 days, in those days I dropped the transmission once on me, I have 2 puncture wounds in my chest from the revere light switch, a nice bruise on the side of my belly from the output shaft. Trying to remove the "removable" center cross member, the pry bar that I was using slipped and I smacked myself with the handle in the chops. Plus various wounds on the hands. LOL

My impressions from driving the Hybrid today is the transmission & transfer case are light years ahead of the series units especially their noise levels. 2 less levers in the cabin and no more lever rattles. Shifting is far more precise and there is no longer any backlash felt in the drive line from the rear locker. In the 15 years of ownership of my Hybrid, this is the first time that the speedo has ever been dead on!

One thing that I did notice even with using a 1.211 transfer case is that the rev's have increased at highway speeds. At 90 kph I use to have 2550rpm, but today I'm now running at 2900rpm. Much higher that I was anticipating so I can see that a ring & pinion change is in order, but I will not use the 3.54's that I have. I want better gearing for offroading but a bit higher than the 4.70's that I have today.......More reading on Ashcorfts site is in order.

Todd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting that you had trouble with the handbrake, mine seems to be working ok, although the wife says she struggles to pull it up the last click which seems to be the one doing the work mostly.

Speedo gears, I was going to ask about that. I need to sort out The 109's. I've got the series head and the series cable just like you, no idea what gear I've got though, is it the blue one required? Whatever's in there at the minute isn't right!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the handbrake I only had braking at the full length of the hand lever even with the adjusters at their max, just like yourself. With the adjusters at their max I had binding in the drake drum. Searching the internet today I found several articles where folk converted their Defenders to RR/Disco1 handbrake levers. So seeing how easy it was I already bought a Disco 1 hand brake lever that will sit on the top of the seatbox next to the driver seat. Just need to order a Defender brake wire and reinstall the original Defender mount on the transfer case.

Yes the speedo gear that I used is the blue one, the one with the less teeth count. Using the GSP the speedo was dead on, which it has never done before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting, as EJ says, my handbrake is also no problem, in fact better than ever!

It's amazing the amount the series levers used to rattle in comparison to now. Interesting that you have gone defender tunnel route. Looking from it now ot actually seems easier to use a series tunnel and levers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's amazing the amount the series levers used to rattle in comparison to now.

It's a totally different environment in the cabin now.

The gear lever boot came in the post this morning and there's too much rubber at the end of the Difflock lever when it's in Hi, therefore it pops out of gear. I'm just wondering if it's just a simple case of removing the floors again and rotating the lever arm that reaches down to the transfer case? I'm thinking that it should be possible to move the lever so that it's full range of travel is more center in the tunnel cover.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the handbrake I only had braking at the full length of the hand lever even with the adjusters at their max, just like yourself. With the adjusters at their max I had binding in the drake drum. Searching the internet today I found several articles where folk converted their Defenders to RR/Disco1 handbrake levers. So seeing how easy it was I already bought a Disco 1 hand brake lever that will sit on the top of the seatbox next to the driver seat. Just need to order a Defender brake wire and reinstall the original Defender mount on the transfer case.

Yes the speedo gear that I used is the blue one, the one with the less teeth count. Using the GSP the speedo was dead on, which it has never done before.

Ah, I'm not using the full length of the travel, sorry, wasn't quite clear. My lever comes up about 5 clicks, but the 5th one is the one that seems to do the most work and the wife can't manage it for some reason. Judging by the hole in the seatbox that's only half the travel or so.

Might get a blue wheel to try, see if I can improve the speedo a it...it's also still waving which I hoped the LT230 would cure....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mickey, my daily driver wheels are 265/75's and like I said with the GPS it is bang on with the speedo. The needle still dances around but no where's as much as it did before. I've not tested the hybrid yet with my offroad tires which are 255/85's but would expect it to be out a bit.

What are you guys running for gears in the axles? I've noticed an increase with motor rev's at highway speeds but I've not seen anyone else mention this therefore I'm suspecting that maybe you guys are not running 4.70's?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm running coiler diffs and 235/85 tyres. (31.5" tall), it does rev slightly more at motorway speeds than before when i had the 4 speed and overdrive, but i still returned 30MPG on my 400 mile round trip to King of Wales and back. (i used to regularly return 32, i suspect the drop in MPG was due to my speed on the way down though!

either way, the slight increase in revs is a happy comprimise for the advantages of the 5 speed!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm running coiler diffs and 235/85 tyres. (31.5" tall), it does rev slightly more at motorway speeds than before when i had the 4 speed and overdrive, but i still returned 30MPG on my 400 mile round trip to King of Wales and back. (i used to regularly return 32, i suspect the drop in MPG was due to my speed on the way down though!

either way, the slight increase in revs is a happy comprimise for the advantages of the 5 speed!

Mikey

How much of a jump were the rpm's for you? In my case it's nearly 400rpm, brining the rev's to 2900 with a road speed of just 90 kph. For me this is too high so I will look for a solution to lower the rpm's. I'm planning a 6~7000 km trip next summer, I just couldn't bear sitting in a vehicle with the motor turning over at 2900 all day long.

Nice write up, Todd, interesting to see others working

Mo

Thanks Mo!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm running 235/85/16's and 3.54 diffs in The 109, but I've not yet sorted out the rev counter or had her on a really good run to be able to get any kind of real figures from her. My 88 is running the 4-speed with OD and 3.54 diffs, and also shod with 235/85/16. I do have a rev counter in her, but it's been a while since I paid attention to what revs she was doing at speed and I've forgotten the answers!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I shall have a look later, it's all theoretical using ash crofts gear calculator. As I have no Rev gauge or desire to fit one. My trip to wales was more than bearable though it definitely revved a little more but not excessively. Still happily sits at 80

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think i posted a comparison screenshot in my LT77 thread.

however revs as follows:

LT77 & 230 (@1.222:1 ratio) 3.54:1 diffs and 31.5" tyres:

90kph (55mph): 1956RPM

128kph (80mph): 2845RPM

4 speed, overdrive, 3.54 diffs and 31.5" tyres:

90kph: 1861.5RPM

128kph: 2707RPM

Increase in RPM from series box:

90kph: 94.5RPM

128kph: 138RPM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LT77 4th gear is straight through, like the Series 4th. 5th gives different step up depending on the suffic number, but as I recall, its in the low 20s%, while Series overdrive is 28%. LT230 is 1.4 (Def) or 1.22:1 (Disco and RRC) compared to 1.15:1 for Series transfer box. So, the Series transfer box and overdrive gve much higher gearing than the LT77 and 5th gear. The difference on coilers is made up for by the diffs. I tried the Series combination with 3.54 diffs, but found it well over geared. I think a 1.22 LT230 and 3.54 would go well in Tdi or V8 Series, finding the 1.22 ratio too low in my Tdi RRC but about right in the 90 Tdci.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GKN Overdrive!!

I have a feeling Nick there's something to do with the tuning of the 200/300's and the extra half ton of the 109/110 over the 88/90. I know a couple of people who've tried and ditched the 1.2 in a 110, and yet the 1.2 in an 88/90 seems to be a workable combination. It's far too early for me to be able to draw on any experience with The 109, she hasn't done the mileage yet and I've not fitted the rev counter, which I need to do because I don't think I'm getting anywhere near full revs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You could always fit 255/85x16 (33") that way you gain around 5 mph at any given revs. I know it's different but I had a disco on 33"s I was horrible so I fitted a 1.4:1 t box and it was purfect in fact better than our 90 on 31"s so much so the 90 is now on 33"s.

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I strongly suspect 255 won't fit my 88, which is perhaps annoying. Well...could potentially be extremely annoying...

Since fitting the LT77/LT230 into The 109 with the series levers, I'm now seriously thinking about doing the same to the 88, which was just going to have the LT77 and then the Series transfer case, using the special adaptor from Ashcrofts. Trouble is that leaves me with a hybrid setup to which I can add neither Overdrive or a PTO, which I could do if I used the LT230 and my numbers came up... I'd have to use the 1.2 LT230 to get the revs similar.

The problem for me, if I fit bigger tyres, is the towing hitch. As it is, when I use the Nato hitch, it's a real pig as the 235/85 sits just above the hitch when it's at the right height, and usually I can only just open the wheel carrier enough to uncouple...changing to 255/85 could bugger that up! On the flip side, I know my springs are shot and will be replaced with the new chassis, which should lift it back up, and the hitch might not need to be so high.....decisions!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LT77 4th gear is straight through, like the Series 4th. 5th gives different step up depending on the suffic number, but as I recall, its in the low 20s%, while Series overdrive is 28%. LT230 is 1.4 (Def) or 1.22:1 (Disco and RRC) compared to 1.15:1 for Series transfer box. So, the Series transfer box and overdrive gve much higher gearing than the LT77 and 5th gear. The difference on coilers is made up for by the diffs. I tried the Series combination with 3.54 diffs, but found it well over geared. I think a 1.22 LT230 and 3.54 would go well in Tdi or V8 Series, finding the 1.22 ratio too low in my Tdi RRC but about right in the 90 Tdci.

Nick,

I to tried the 3.54's in my hybrid and I never liked it.

When I bought the LT77 it came with the 1.4 version of the LT230, which I replaced immediately with the 1.22 version. But even though the rpm's went up higher than anticipated, I was actually expecting them to be around 2700. Anyways using the ratio calculator at Ashcrofts, theoretically the gear set that would give me the ratio that I want for city/highway driving is the 1.003 gear set. This would drop the rpm's down to a more reasonable 2350.ish range. Slightly lower rpm's than I had before which should translate into better economy.

As for weight's my 88 Hybrid weigh's in at 1930kg at the scales a few months ago. That's not including any offroad gear, roof tent or camping gear. Even though the 300Tdi pulls the hybrid along at a very nice pace loaded or not.

Todd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You could always find a 1.003 LT230 and bolt that up, I reckon that should bring it back almost factory gearing, just with more ways to split it.

And of course keep your low range unaffected.

Exactly my thinking. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You could always fit 255/85x16 (33") that way you gain around 5 mph at any given revs. I know it's different but I had a disco on 33"s I was horrible so I fitted a 1.4:1 t box and it was purfect in fact better than our 90 on 31"s so much so the 90 is now on 33"s.

Mike

I have 255's but they are Creepy Crawlers, I don't think that they will make very good daily driver tires. :(

post-194-0-44485600-1440671172_thumb.jpeg

But maybe selling the 265/75's then getting a set of 235/85 radials as daily driver tires might be a better solution for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Been busy in the garage the past week with a shipment from Ashcroft's (Thanks Dave) installing a 1.003 gear set into the LT230. To be honest I would have had the work done earlier unfortunately I wasn't paying attention when I was placing my orders and I didn't have a bearing 606474G for the output shaft. It was a local over night order that cost 300:- while waiting I went over to the stealers to see what they took for the same bearing and I nearly dropped when they said 2100:- for a Timkens bearing.

Anyways everything is done and I've taken the landy for a run on the highway and what a nice feeling to have the motor rev's down. As I said earlier the engine was turning over at 2900 @ 90 kph (1.211 gear set), now with the 1.003 gear set the motor is turning over at 2400 @ 90 kph. A nice improvement which is actually lower that what I had with the series transmission/transfer case. That combo was turning over at 2550 @ 90 kph.

There is now though a notable gear whine from the newly cut gears but I expect that to quiet down once I get a few miles under my belt.

Also I can add using the GPS my speed is still bang on. ;-)

There's one mystery that I have been experiencing since this conversion and that is a vibration, nothing huge but a minor vibration that I feel in the landy when I'm pulling away. Once the landy begins to pick up speed, say over 10~15 kph it seems to smooth out. I was thinking that it might be related to the angle of the rear propshaft but with that removed I still have the vibration. The front propshaft is rather straight so I can't see that being the culprit but I will remove that to see. There's one other thing that I'm thinking it's the tires, I've lost the weights on them years ago so that is a possibility.

I don't know if it has anything to do with the clutch, it engages smoothing and no problems with gear changes but I have noticed a slight squeal from time to time when I downshift. Has anyone else noticed a new found vibration after this conversion?

Todd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We use cookies to ensure you get the best experience. By using our website you agree to our Cookie Policy