Gon2far suspension setup

[simonr]

It's the kind of thing you can make fairly easily as a one off. The biggest hurdle to a 'small batch' is getting the springs made. I would probably have to order over 100 pairs at about £50 a pair minimum order quantity. Similar for the brackets - so the small batch becomes a £7k gamble.

I think with the best will in the world, I would end up loosing most of it. Maybe I should buy 7000 lottery tickets and if I win - then I'll fund it!

Si

[Jim-Bob]

It's the kind of thing you can make fairly easily as a one off. The biggest hurdle to a 'small batch' is getting the springs made. I would probably have to order over 100 pairs at about £50 a pair minimum order quantity. Similar for the brackets - so the small batch becomes a £7k gamble.

I think with the best will in the world, I would end up loosing most of it. Maybe I should buy 7000 lottery tickets and if I win - then I'll fund it!

Si

Thanks for your input Si, didn't appreciate how big a 'small batch' would have to be! I was thinking more like 10 kits which could probably be sold relatively easily, but I agree 50 kits would take a long time to sell hence not a great investment for the business!

I'll have to keeping looking for another system/get creative in the workshop (if I ever get round to bonding it!)

James

[FridgeFreezer]

Just catching up with this - yes I have the G2F system, I fitted the revolvers on the rear springs but removed them again as the verdict from the rest of the HOFS team was they looked a lot like a potential failure point on Russian roads, and could make the 109 a bit of a handfull especially towing etc. The front swivels weld on & are locked so no issues there.

Appearance of the truck aside, the suspension is near stock - 2-leaf TIC fronts & 3+1 rears, no lift, long shocks mostly due to the portals. The anti-wrap setup has gone through 2 versions and likely will get revised again one day.

I do mostly forget to unlock the fronts as the truck doesn't get stuck very often (which must be down to the truck as it's certainly not driver skill) but here's some photies of twisting:













Whereas a million years ago with "only" parabolics & proComps & 1-ton shackles it looked like this:

Edited to add for Simon: The guys that made my U-bolts for me were Jones Springs, they make springs & bits for commercials etc. and I got the impression they'd probably make one or ten or a hundred of anything just as happily.

[Jim-Bob]

Thanks for finding this Fridge, mine certainly won't be modified to the point yours is but the photos of the 'old' setup still shows some good flex results for the relatively little work required!

Were your extended shocks fitted to the standard mounts or did you fab up some extended mounts too?

X spring might be saved by Jones Springs then Simon *hint hint*

James

[Bowie69]

I have a (rough) Solidworks file for it - though I don't think the dimensions are correct.

Series X-Spring.jpg

You get the general idea though. The original was made from a single leaf spring from a van I think, annealed, bent & re-tempered.

Si

Grrr, the forum seems to have eaten another of my posts..... here goes again...

What about a quarter elliptic leaf coming down from the bump stop and connecting to the spring shackle? at rest of course it would be full compressed, but as the spring starts to drop out, then it starts it's work...

Should be really cheap in comparison, and be able to use a single leaf of a parabolic spring pack, so should be easily available...?

[Grem]

I'm winner of least articulation

[FridgeFreezer]

Mine looks more modified than it is in some ways - I could pretty much bolt standard Series axles back on if I wanted to.

Were your extended shocks fitted to the standard mounts or did you fab up some extended mounts too?

The shocks pick up the standard mounts on the axles as they work well (especially the rears), at the front I put coiler turrets on to allow for the shock length, the rear I moved the mount up to the top of the chassis with a fair bit of bracing. I've got a piccy of the front but not the rear, although there's no rocket science to ether end:

[Jim-Bob]

Grrr, the forum seems to have eaten another of my posts..... here goes again...

What about a quarter elliptic leaf coming down from the bump stop and connecting to the spring shackle? at rest of course it would be full compressed, but as the spring starts to drop out, then it starts it's work...

Should be really cheap in comparison, and be able to use a single leaf of a parabolic spring pack, so should be easily available...?

That sounds like an interesting theory Bowie, I've had a quick Google and it seems a similar idea has been used on a few types of chassis.

Maybe Si could let us know if this idea was considered by x-eng or if for some reason it was ruled out?

Mine looks more modified than it is in some ways - I could pretty much bolt standard Series axles back on if I wanted to.

The shocks pick up the standard mounts on the axles as they work well (especially the rears), at the front I put coiler turrets on to allow for the shock length, the rear I moved the mount up to the top of the chassis with a fair bit of bracing. I've got a piccy of the front but not the rear, although there's no rocket science to ether end:

Cheers Fridge, are the front tower mounts readily available to buy or do they need to be lopped off an old coiler chassis?

Shame there isn't a kit for the rear, I guess it's a matter of measuring the gaps on compression and droop and find a suitable length shock and make a new month to suit?

James

[discomikey]

Fridge.

Consider you're anti-wrap bar stolen (in principal) if that's okay with you?

Have you found any negatives with having one fitted?

[landroversforever]

You can buy the mounts off the shelf James, the chassis bit (not the hoop) is the spring bucket for the road spring on a coiler. The shock turret then bolts to it.

[Jim-Bob]

I'm winner of least articulation

image.jpg

Did you weld the axle to the chassis Grem?! Think those spring packs need some TLC!

You can buy the mounts off the shelf James, the chassis bit (not the hoop) is the spring bucket for the road spring on a coiler. The shock turret then bolts to it.

Cheers Ross, more bits for the shopping list...might need another socket for the welder on the drive now...the chassis definitely won't get to the shed!

James

[FridgeFreezer]

What Ross said - the turret is off-the-shelf, the mount is a coiler spring bucket we lopped off a discarded lump of chassis, I don't know if you could buy them separately.

Mikey - I think I described the issues in my anti-wrap thread, in as much as I'm fairly sure the front was and still is binding up a bit and making the front end very bouncy. I think the musings of Bill Van Snorkel are on the right track - a single bar from the front going backwards to the axle may well be sufficient. I've been nosing under various leaf-sprung vehicles on my travels and most, if they do anything, have a single-bar solution, presumably with enough compliance in bushes to allow for natural movement as the spring flexes.

[ToyRoverlander]

From all the research I've done I read that revolver style shackles give quite interesting handling both on and offroad. I also didn't like the idea of a shackle that's made of various bolted together bits. Flex shots show the increased articulation but at the expense of handling.

Instead, I opted for longer springs front and back. Rear 3 leaf parabolic springs up front (chassis extended to keep axle location the same) and 63" long chevy rear springs. Obviously new spring mounts need to be fabbed. They can also be bought ready to weld to the chassis, that's what I did in case of the rear mounts. Proper shocks with decent stroke are needed too, including new shock mounts.

Result is huge articulation and very decent road manners, you can really throw it around corners. It does help that it has a very low CoG.

Ride height might be a bit much for some, I have to say it's a lot higher than standard. It still rides really nice though.

[FridgeFreezer]

I was waiting for ToyRoverLander to join in, nice truck

[ToyRoverlander]

Well we can't have a thread like this without you and me chiming in

I thought you went with the same shocks as I have, which are eye-eye, surely that meant modifying the shock mounts as the original ones are pin-pin

The shocks pick up the standard mounts on the axles as they work well (especially the rears), at the front I put coiler turrets on to allow for the shock length, the rear I moved the mount up to the top of the chassis with a fair bit of bracing. I've got a piccy of the front but not the rear, although there's no rocket science to ether end:

[Jim-Bob]

Hi all, been thinking if there are any more options for increased articulation and found these trawling the interweb:

I wondered if something like this would work similar the Si's X-Spring and the revolver shackles, I know it won't allow for any extra twist but will allow extra droop, without the binding issues found with the revolvers.

Could this be made using extended (military) shackles and a standard set, would obviously need custom spares and longer bolts on the military set to fit outside the standard shackles, with a very slim bumpstop to stop the end of the spring clashing metal on metal the chassis?

Does this sound like it might work or am I just talking jibberish?!

All opinions greatly appreciated as always!

James

[Jim-Bob]

To clarify my adobe post I thought I'd try and do a quick sketch of what I was trying to describe above, but in the absence if any fancy CAD programs or functioning laptop I've had to do it in the sketch app on my phone so apologies! The left image is side on view, right hand image is end on:

Not sure if that adds any clarity or not?! Next time I can access a PC I'll try and draw something a bit neater!

James

[Daan]

I found a few pictures of my old leaf spring setup, so for completeness, I thought I share:

Basically, I was running standard petrol s3 swb springs. I took them all apart, removed the rust and assembled them together with grease. This made the ride and articulation miles better. At the front, because of the short length of the leaves, they were just too stiff. I removed the longest leaf without eyes to make them softer. This makes them way too soft, so I added a coilover type shock absorber, being a a koni load leveler, on top of the axle, with a custom mount to the chassis. This made the suspension work much better. It was under damped, but the articulation was near coilspring level. This was in the days before we had parabolics available to us, and I had no money to spend (student!). The shackles were standard. This whole revolver shackle idea looks a bit wobbly to me, so I never bothered. I later converted to coils, but the leaf sprung setup has done me proud.

Pics:

You can see the coilover shock and the frame behind the radiator to support them

Articulation, which was pretty well balanced between front and rear.

Daan

[Jim-Bob]

Thanks for the information Daan, so in those pictures the rear springs are just cleaned, greased standard leaf springs?

That's a very articulation, not seen that on many set-ups even with parabolic's most seem to continue to flex more at th back than the front!

Are the shock absorbers standard or extended in those photos?

Cheers

James

[Daan]

The shocks at the rear were standard fit, I cant quite remember wether they were rears or fronts, but one of them is longer, and that is what I fitted. I also had to cut the wheel boxes at the top to clear on full bump (with 255/85/16 Bfgoodrich mud terrains).

The springs at the rear were indeed standard. The standard springs are much more tune able than the parabolics. Another rear spring to consider is the lwb station car ones. They are progressive, so the further you travel upwards, the more leafs are working.

Daan

[Jim-Bob]

Thanks Daan, I think I'll try this before o do anything else, especially as I'm hoping to keep the truck looking as 'series' as possible with subtle improvements for both on and offroad

James

[Daan]

Cool, share your experiences with us, once it runs. I have considered teflon plates in between the leafs, but never got round to it. Grease works, but obviously only for so long as it attracts dirt and so on. So thats another consideration.

Something else I did consider is tophat spring plates. This makes the u-bolts les sticking out, so less hinderance offroad.

Like these:

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/DEAV-WIYP.html

Daan

[Jim-Bob]

It's just a vapour build at the moment as there are more pressing things to spend the money on at the moment so I'm just trying to gather together as much information and knowledge I can whilst I'm unable to actively have a project on the go. I will definitely have a detailed progress thread for when it does start though!

I've heard Teflon plates mentioned before, something I'll definitely have to look into because as you say grease is a magnet for dirt and grit which in turn becomes a grinding paste that will do more harm than good!

Those top hats look good, better clearance and less chance of snagging the bolts or damaging the threads!

James

[Jim-Bob]

For future reference, a guide to refurbing spring packs and ideas for reducing friction: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=69403

James

[Gazzar]

How robust would those extend-able shackles be, I wonder? Presumably they'd be in the closed position in normal driving, but what about cornering? And what would stop the bolt from wearing out? There's going to be a tonne of weight on those brackets at all times, and I would doubt that they'd last.

G.