Grem Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Thinking about welding up the rear diff on me series 3 lwb with salisbury rear axle. It is just my toy so boy massive distance on the road but certainly not trailering it everywhere, so have started to think about putting a freewheeling hub on one rear. My landrover had 2 FWH's on the front when I got it, so took one off, took off the right rear flange and pushed on the FWH and nipped up the bolts, there's about 1/4" gap from the end of the half shaft and the circlip in the FWH. I'm happy with the amount of engagement, and the half shaft can't come out, but I don't want it to go in anymore than it is. I'm going to take the diff unit out to see if the halfshaft is stopped from going in anymore. I just thought I'd write my thoughts so far on here and just see what others know/have found, I've got a feeling the halfshaft has gone too far into the diff already which is why it looks like it's too short, I'll have a better look somewhen else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 Depth of engagement sorted now, still interested in anyone's thoughts or facts from past experience into this idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 So you gonna run one wheel drive on the road? Won't you get tired of holding the steering to one side to counter the lack of drive on the other? When you decelerate won't it will pull the other way? What country are you in? Is it even legal? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 With the best will on my part, it's a terrible idea. One wheel drive will give appalling handling, especially in the wet, potentially dangerously bad, and will overstress the single half shaft carrying the load. Welding up diffs is an atrocious bodge and those who do it on anything other than a dedicated trialler should have their heads examined. Far better to save up and do the job properly with a locking or LSD, even second hand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Much as I love a good bodge, the one thing that really bothers me about this is if you were to encounter a stretch of ice how on earth would you cope? And it would be really embarrassing to be in a landrover that can'd cope with conditions that a fiesta would just sniff at! I know I'm sounding all 'elf and safety, but if the worst was to happen I can only imagine what would happen to insurance premiums as a result. Selfish, I know, but.. If you want to experiment look into fitting a powerlok diff from a jag, it might fit a salisbury, and give you lsd. Or fit one of these lockers that are operated by air? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Funnily enough I was talking to a mate last weekend, and he mentioned that he'd done exactly what you're proposing, but many years ago. I daresay it's the kind of poor man's bodge of yesteryear that folk just did without worrying too much. These days there always seems to be a reason not to do such things. Perhaps it's age related wisdom ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoggyN Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Aren't Detroit lockers one wheel drive around corners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 No problem Grem, I've done it, it handles down right dangerously! What I did later though, and what I would recommend you do, is fit both FWH to the rear and disengage both rear shafts. Pop it into 4wd Hi and off you go! No bad handling characteristics at all, only thing is you'll feel a slight 'wobble' in the steering wheel when cornering tight at low speeds (small roundabouts, into driveways etc) because of the u-joints. But when the road is slippery it actually behaves better than with RWD because it doesn't want to spin around itself anymore If I was low on funds I'd happily do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Soren makes a good point. I once had to drive a fair distance with a stripped rear drive flange on a Series 3. Despite the front axle effectively doing the work, the mismatched rear pulled strongly one way under "power" (if you can use such an impressive term for a 2¼ diesel) and strongly the other way on lift-off. It was very unnerving. The basic proposal will work but so badly I'd either stick to very slow speeds or just let the welded diff spin your inside tyre like a quad does - or do what Soren wisely suggests! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Front wheel drive? It'll never take off as an idea . G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Dickens Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 A friend of mine welded his rear center on his Classic Range Rover. He was running 31" X 10.5" BF muds and even on dry tar it wasn't too bad. Some tyre squeal through the corners, but a lot safer than running one wheel drive on the rear axle. If you are running 33's or 35's I would imagine it could be a lot worse and the load on the rear shafts could cause some damage. My concern would be the strength of the FWH's. I have seen them destroyed on the front, so don't know how long they will last on the rear. The comment on Detroit lockers being one wheel drive through a corner is absolutely true. That is why there are many who do not like their on-road manners and handling. The vehicle goes from having understeer to oversteer in an instant. My advice, for a toy, driven short distances to trails, in Britain (I assume), the wettest place on earth would be to weld the center and leave it as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai_landrover Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 On Detroits its not one wheel drive it drives both wheels but allows the outside to overrun which means the inside wheel or the slowest which can give mild understeer feeling is quite ok if your used to it. having one side always driving is never a good idea unless you always want to turn right and not left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Dickens Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 On Detroits its not one wheel drive it drives both wheels but allows the outside to overrun which means the inside wheel or the slowest which can give mild understeer feeling is quite ok if your used to it. having one side always driving is never a good idea unless you always want to turn right and not left A Detroit drives both wheels when going straight. In a corner the outer wheel can overun, as you have said. That does cause the understeer that you are speaking of. The problem arises when you have a powerfull enough engine that can cause the inner wheel to break traction. The inner wheel then catches up to the outer wheel's speed causing drive to suddenly go to the outer wheel. If you were countering the understeer experienced before with a larger steering input and suddenly have drive on the outer wheel, you go from under to oversteer in an instant and could very possibly lose it. This is more pronounced on a SWB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai_landrover Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 That's not a powerful engine just poor driving! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai_landrover Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Had it installed in my 90 for 8 years in two different axles And yes on and off the throttle you can tighten up or not around corners. If you stomp mid corner you expect or should expect the back end to break loose. They do have their kwerks and much fun can be had messing about. But ultimately the driver is responsible for driving in a safe responsible manner. When it snowed a couple of years back I broke a front shaft (being a tit) dis engaged the 90's FWH and carried on trialling (was only tyro for the younguns) with the Detroit in the back it was most fun going through canes sideways. We all tit about but a Detroit isn't to be scared of. It's not nice characteristics however it is livable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I'm assuming Detroits talked about is Limited Slip Diff. Be aware then that these have friction plates that will wear out. So a cheap 2nd hand set might be useless..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Detroit lockers are not LSDs, no plates to wear, purely mechanical on/off drive to inner wheel. There is the Truetrac, which is a torque biasing diff, these don't really wear either, very clever mechanicals again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoggyN Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 As I understand their function, Detroit lockers are like the freewheel on a bicycle... only there are two, side by side, driven from a common sprocket. Going around a corner, the drive to the outer wheel freewheels as it speeds up relative to the inner wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai_landrover Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 It allows the outside wheel to overrun and it does have its qwerks if you respect its mechanical fit and forget nature and drive sensible its perfectly ok. Awsome pieces of kit but they do wear rear bushes, tyre dia size is Very important on the same axle and it will get you out of the muddy stuff with no airlines or electrical connection its purley mechanical and reliable. I wouldn't run a rover unit but sals yes all day long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordrover Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 That's not a powerful engine just poor driving! So you don"t have a powerful enough engine then, sorry to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Dickens Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 That's not a powerful engine just poor driving! So you don't have a powerful enough engine then. That is very sad. You know that you can do something about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai_landrover Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Haha I have a tdi un modified. I have driven stonking tuned V8's in landies and had much fun. But you expect back ends to swing out so funny things with lockers. My point being, its driver not engine that should decides how side way or not you go. If it's not the driver and it's the engine it's simple lack of skill. My trials motor has a rebuilt std (that word people hate on forums) and it will be much fun being 80 inch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Dickens Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 If you install any equipment to a vehicle that will change driving characteristics to a point where it becomes unpredictable or even slightly harder to control than it used to be, I do not like it. Selectable lockers ensure that the normal driving characteristics are unaltered. At least with a welded rear center you always know what to expect. I contemplated fitting Detroits to my vehicle and ended up fitting air lockers. I suppose its a case of each to their own. P.S. The sound of an older Detroit engaging and disengaging makes me cringe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai_landrover Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 The old ones were loud Must admit mine had a small engagement noise very quiet maybe once every couple of months. But was completely silent otherwise. The kaiser locker fitted to my brothers disco was horrendous! Clanking and banging around corners. Never had an issue with them being unpredictable always did the same thing driving inside wheel always. Only if you drove like a tit did it become sideways fun and when your driving like that you expect it to be fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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