Minutes silence at 10:00

[Simon_CSK]

The last defender has passed

[duncmc]

I feel like flags should be at half mast, and we should all be wearing a black arm band.

[Tetsu0san]

I feel like flags should be at half mast, and we should all be wearing a black arm band.

Or celebrating that our Land Rover's are going to be going up even more in value!

Or fearing that they will become even more attractive to thieves..

But it's sad either way.

[Ally V8]

Its a good day,glad they have stopped.They should have been SO much better,in design,quality and build quality.

[missingsid]

Its a good day,glad they have stopped.They should have been SO much better,in design,quality and build quality.

Sorry but I have to agree, in truth there are areas where it was an arrogant design where LR told customers what they needed (or didn't), it was mediocre in places and far too expensive for the market it was built for!. The biggest irony of all is that in an age of Retro it was seen as the ultimate Retro product of all when in fact it only carried on as it did because LR were either too dumb to be able to evolve it or too cheapskate to want to!

Look at the films of the Defender's exploits and notable achievements and they were either funded by organisations with huge purses (Armies - who had to have them modified to fit) or exploration where LR used marketing money to fund it!

Look at the use of Defenders as challenge vehicles, there's nothing LR left!

I love mine, mainly because I can modify it with spanners at best or a welder at worst. There is a huge market for companies offering after market products, not to pretty it up (there are some) but mainly because LR won't admit it is flawed and weak. I've said this here recently, my S1 has survived 60 years do to build strengh (chassis etc.) a Defender half its age has survived because it is so easy to get a replacement chassis!

When there huge rallies of LR enthusiasts mad at possible changes or happy celebrating its birthdays I thought why these people won't influence new build or sales. If I was wrong and they did then it was them that held the evolution back!

So do I hate LR,no, am I sad of the end of the Defender (god I hated that name), no, I look forward to seeing the next offering that has to be different, bring it on!

Long live LR,

Marc

[Snagger]

Rubbish. MoD 90s and 110s were standard except for the lighting controls and where fitted for radios until the Wolf. That also uses standard parts on a beefed up chassis. The Camel Trophy vehicles were standard 110s with a roll cage, roof rack and winch, that was it - no special transmission, chassis or engine. The G4s didn't even get the roll cage, just a fancy paint job and the accessories, but were, too, mechanically and structurally standard.

Some military and commercial vehicles were specially modified, but do you think Nissan or Toyota make an FFR, crop spraying, tracked or WMIK model as standard?

[missingsid]

I didn'f say expidition vehicles were modified, I said they they were "chosen" as LR funded it.

Military LR became overladen due to need and got replaced in varrious roles, maybe as the role became more specialised but a do it all LR is not suitable any more.

Perhaps these are sweeping statements, but the replacement should have happened years ago. I don't own my S1 for any sentimental LR reason, I own it cos it is much smaller and lighter than anything that followed it. If I was to replace it, it would be a custom coiler or Volo/Mog type.

[mmgemini]

Rubbish. MoD 90s and 110s were standard except for the lighting controls and where fitted for radios until the Wolf. That also uses standard parts on a beefed up chassis. The Camel Trophy vehicles were standard 110s with a roll cage, roof rack and winch, that was it - no special transmission, chassis or engine. The G4s didn't even get the roll cage, just a fancy paint job and the accessories, but were, too, mechanically and structurally standard.

Some military and commercial vehicles were specially modified, but do you think Nissan or Toyota make an FFR, crop spraying, tracked or WMIK model as standard?

Land Rover didn't build those vehicles at the Land Rover factory. They were built by Land Rover Special Vehicles. Not the factory

[Snagger]

I know, Mike. Does that change anything I wrote? They were given accessories that can't be installed on the main line. That doesn't make them wildly different. Those vehicles are still mechanically standard.

[Sheffield]

It seems to me that we should bear in mind that Land Rover does not exist to make land-Rovers, or any other vehicles. It exists to make money. Every thing else is just a means to that end. And they seem to be making vehicles that sell very well indeed, and so seem to be working well towards their prime objective.They have to make what the buyers will buy. I wonder how many of the people who say they should make what would be in effect a Series 3 would actually buy one if they did.

These days the commercial market generally wants something like a Toyota pickup, and the upper market wants fancy toys.

[mmgemini]

I know, Mike. Does that change anything I wrote? They were given accessories that can't be installed on the main line. That doesn't make them wildly different. Those vehicles are still mechanically standard.

Not according to some insurance companies.

[Snagger]

They may be electrically different, have bodywork or seating alterations or other items that don't affect the mechanical or performance characteristics, but insurers still see them as non-standard because they can only cover what you get in a franchised dealer's show room. That does not mean that previous comments about the vehicles being unfit for the MoD or for LR's own rallies were correct. The comment that they should have been better assembled was entirely fair, the comment that they are incapable vehicles without extensive modification was utterly wrong, and many, many modified vehicles are less capable than they were when original.

[mmgemini]

They may be electrically different, have bodywork or seating alterations or other items that don't affect the mechanical or performance characteristics, but insurers still see them as non-standard because they can only cover what you get in a franchised dealer's show room. That does not mean that previous comments about the vehicles being unfit for the MoD or for LR's own rallies were correct. The comment that they should have been better assembled was entirely fair, the comment that they are incapable vehicles without extensive modification was utterly wrong, and many, many modified vehicles are less capable than they were when original.

I'll second that

[JeffR]

They may be electrically different, have bodywork or seating alterations or other items that don't affect the mechanical or performance characteristics, but insurers still see them as non-standard because they can only cover what you get in a franchised dealer's show room. That does not mean that previous comments about the vehicles being unfit for the MoD or for LR's own rallies were correct. The comment that they should have been better assembled was entirely fair, the comment that they are incapable vehicles without extensive modification was utterly wrong, and many, many modified vehicles are less capable than they were when original.

I'll third that

[Simon_CSK]

Never personally had a defender. The Range Rover was always my thing however without the original Series 1 there would never have been Range Rovers, Discoveries or Freelanders so we should all boff our hats and say farewell regardless of our own desires.Besides do we all not love the "Russian Roulette" we play everytime we go somewhere.

[Ed Poore]

They may be electrically different, have bodywork or seating alterations or other items that don't affect the mechanical or performance characteristics, but insurers still see them as non-standard because they can only cover what you get in a franchised dealer's show room. That does not mean that previous comments about the vehicles being unfit for the MoD or for LR's own rallies were correct. The comment that they should have been better assembled was entirely fair, the comment that they are incapable vehicles without extensive modification was utterly wrong, and many, many modified vehicles are less capable than they were when original.

For some reason, I have no substance to this other than a vague memory of a conversation I had with someone who had one a while ago, I think it depended on when Special Projects got hold of the vehicle in the build process.

The conversation I remember was someone who had a highly customised utility vehicle which was listed as a bog standard Land Rover. The point was it came out of the factory in that configuration so was standard thereby not requiring any mods listed. If you compared it to a "standard" 130 then there was hardly anything in common. Perhaps because SP got it before it got registered it was listed as coming out of the factory like that, rather than the more usual approach of taking a production vehicle and modifying it.