BigBlue90 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Hi guys! New on here and I need some help! Some nasty problems with my 200tdi 90 (early 200tdi of 175,000miles) Recently went to Tixover off road in the old girl, sunny day- why not? Now it did the course alright, little sluggish on some steep hills here and there but generally okay. Now this next bit is the problem, most of tixover as you may know is a flooded woodland with deep sort of canals instead of tracks you follow around. Nothing major, only came half way up my wheels so barely anything to worry about. But at the end of the day when no one was about, the heavy foot made an appearance and ruined everything by driving pretty fast through the same flooded wood. The odd corner would be deeper being it was well travelled so occasionally the water would get a little higher than the arch but only briefly. Now when I exited the water, I immediately went hard right up a very boggy sort of clay like hill. Big blue (the 90) didn't like that so she white and black smoked heavily half way up, lost power briefly but I managed to get her to the top and stop (to panic!) Now at this point after that little smoke show I decided to take it out of the deep clay pits and back to the entrance where I could inspect it better on flat ground; and if it did pack up all together at least I could get it out instead of leaving it stranded, powerless, up the top of a steep hill. Started her up, ran really rough and only white smoked this time with a sort of lack of power. Drove her out, sat her for a while on tick over, very small amount of white smoke but not as bad as before. Drove home (about 15 miles) and again, very little smoke but again slight lack of power. By the time I got back it was dark so I left it until the next day, washed it down and took it out for a drive, still smoking and still lack of power. Checked the fluids and filters; oil level down to low mark on dipstick with no water present, water down just an inch below mark in reservoir but no oil present, air filter very dirty and no water visible in fuel filter. Decided to service it, all new filters, topped up water and changed oil. Checked turbo, no movement. Small amount of oil from rocker pipe in intake pipe and turbo so cleaned off. Took it out again, heavy white smoke under power and idles rough. Weekend ended, It then sat for a week, I came back to it and weirdly it starts with a little white smoke with no major problems on 4 mile run. Next day, start it up and idles pretty rough under power like its misfiring, really really badly white smokes under power or no power. Now, I think it's the head gasket. Y'know the whole water in cylinder, compressed it and pushed the head off and bent a push rod or two. Maybe some valves aren't fully working. Or my second would be to check piston rings. I just have these random ideas so can anyone help before I have to strip the engine? Before you ask- No bad fuel put in, I don't use red, water pump is under year old, belts fine and don't slip, oil looked and smelled clean on removal. It has a new fuel cap and yes it was on properly. Tank was full before off road day, air filter found to be wet before replacement after smoke first occurred. No snorkel fitted and intake pipe on left hand wing below heater. I don't know if it's related but on the same day I drove into ruts, hit a rock pretty hard and bent the lower steering rod out of place. Wheels couldn't move at time as in tight ruts so when I hit the rock the pump would have taken the full force? Could it cause problems in the engine somehow? Anyway sorry to write so much, wanted to make sure you guys had all the facts :L Any ideas? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackmac Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 If it were me, I would pull the push rods out and check they are all straight. Make sure you keep them in order and put them back where they came from, and that they seat properly when you put them back. Shouldn't take more than half an hour or so to do, think it's remove cyclone filter, remove rocker cover, 5 bolts/nuts to remove rocker shaft. Then with each rod, I found the easiest way to check for straightness was to roll it across a perfect flat surface aka the glass coffee table, you will see it waving about if it's bent. Rocker shaft bolts should be torqued to 30Nm on refitting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailysleaze Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 It may also be worth checking the timing belt to see if it jumped or stripped a tooth, as you were working the engine quite hard when it happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue90 Posted November 26, 2013 Author Share Posted November 26, 2013 Hi guys, thanks for the help. I've checked the rods, all straight :/ will check the timing tomorrow. Found the turbo has play though?? Moves a few mm in all directions, is this bad? I seem to have an idea it's meant to be solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 The turbo is meant to have very little or no play but as long as it doesn't rub the inside of the housing then I wouldn't worry too much. But they do wear and they do end up with play eventually. After my issue with power and white smoke on my 200Tdi, I would think it's probably timing. It's easy enough to check if the injector pump is out, takes about 5 minutes. Unless water ingress has bent a conrod, but that usually bends a pushrod too. Also, might be an idea to update your signature and profile with your location. Someone might live close to you and could give you a hand for a cuppa or 2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 This smells like a fuel problem. Checked the sedimenter? Changed the fuel filter? Checked for fuel pressure at the filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialbikejames Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Water in fuel from the wading? If it started immediately after you ploughed through a deep bombhole that's what I'd check. Use the drain point to empty your fuel tank and check that before stripping the engine down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave88sw Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 If the turbo moves a few mm it's knackered, yes you expect a little play if it has a lot of miles but it should be barely noticeable, a few mm of play is far too much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 If the turbo moves a few mm it's knackered, yes you expect a little play if it has a lot of miles but it should be barely noticeable, a few mm of play is far too much Up/down play is fine. What feels like a few mm is normally a fraction of that. In/out play is an indication of a problem. A turbo issue won't cause white smoke anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue90 Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 It may also be worth checking the timing belt to see if it jumped or stripped a tooth, as you were working the engine quite hard when it happened This smells like a fuel problem. Checked the sedimenter? Changed the fuel filter? Checked for fuel pressure at the filter? Water in fuel from the wading? If it started immediately after you ploughed through a deep bombhole that's what I'd check. Use the drain point to empty your fuel tank and check that before stripping the engine down. Up/down play is fine. What feels like a few mm is normally a fraction of that. In/out play is an indication of a problem. A turbo issue won't cause white smoke anyhow. Ok then! For a start I'm going to check/ do the timing, drain the fuel tank, purge the fuel lines, change the filter again, put the turbo back on after jumping into thinking it was nackered (when it's not, lack of trust with turbos thanks to a very unreliable TD5!) and then! See if the old girl starts without smoke. FINGERS CROSSED! Else she's getting stripped down to the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue90 Posted December 22, 2013 Author Share Posted December 22, 2013 Right! This is bugging me now! I've put a new timing belt on, tensioner, seals and such and it's even worse! I locked the pump with a pin, I lined up the crank with the little arrow on the front and put the pump on the way I was supposed to, lined up the cam with the arrow on the casing to a metal marker on the pulley and after putting it all together again it can barely idle! Fills a double garage up with smoke in seconds! What have I done wrong?? HELP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Checked the lift pump? White smoke can be a lack of fuel. Mine did it a little while back, turned out the lift pipe on my tank had snapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Eliminate the fuel system by running it from a bottle of clean diesel straight into the injection pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamC Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 If changing the timing belt has made things worse I would re-check your timing. The crank shaft should really be locked with a timing pin through the wading plug hole into a slot in the flywheel which is more accurate than aligning the arrow on the casing. Lock the crankshaft properly and see if your injection pump is still lined up correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Right! This is bugging me now! I've put a new timing belt on, tensioner, seals and such and it's even worse! I locked the pump with a pin, I lined up the crank with the little arrow on the front and put the pump on the way I was supposed to, lined up the cam with the arrow on the casing to a metal marker on the pulley and after putting it all together again it can barely idle! Fills a double garage up with smoke in seconds! What have I done wrong?? HELP! Your timing would have to be waaaay out for this to happen. Run a line straight into the injection pump from a bottle of diesel and eliminate the fuel system before going further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackmac Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Your timing would have to be waaaay out for this to happen. Run a line straight into the injection pump from a bottle of diesel and eliminate the fuel system before going further. I disagree. My 200 ran like an absolute pig when I started it after doing the timing belt, I had got the injector pump pulley less than 2mm wrong. After sorting that it was perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue90 Posted December 26, 2013 Author Share Posted December 26, 2013 I reckon I didn't tension the belt properly and the crank was ever so slightly out of place. And i know its not fuel, drained the tank and flushed it through with clean before I did the belt change. I'll buy a locking pin kit and report back! It's all a learning curve really, I quite like learning by my mistakes instead of getting it right first time actually, much better than being told the easy way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 use the narrow slot in the flywheel edge, there is a much wider slot as well, the TDC is the narrow slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyNissanPrairie Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 "Now, I think it's the head gasket. Y'know the whole water in cylinder, compressed it and pushed the head off and bent a push rod or two. Maybe some valves aren't fully working. Or my second would be to check piston rings. I just have these random ideas so can anyone help before I have to strip the engine?" bent con rod. does it sound like its running on 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Ok, so your timing might be slightly out after changing the timing belt. I've made this mistake too. And i know its not fuel, drained the tank and flushed it through with clean before I did the belt change. This does not check your fuel system. I really very strongly suggest you try running from a bottle of diesel directly into the injection pump. Not into the lift pump or filter, right into the injection pump. You'll either find it runs fine (the effects from your timing belt change not misgiving) or it makes no difference in which case start looking elsewhere. Most sudden onset 'white smoke' problems I've come across on diesels are caused by air in the fuel lines. In fact, I can only think of one instance when it wasn't. Rule number 1 when searching out problems - start with the simple and cheap things first. The above will take 10 mins to check and could save you pulling the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue90 Posted December 26, 2013 Author Share Posted December 26, 2013 Ok I'll give it a go feed the pump with a bottle, see if its any better. If not then its gotta be my own daft fault not locking the flywheel properly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Might be this too, if as you say it's got worse since you did the timing belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue90 Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Ok I re did the timing belt properly this time! Locked the flywheel and the pump, cam in correct position, belt on and tensioned it. Didn't assemble the front of the engine this time before having a go starting it and it's now running much smoother but snot quite itself yet, very very slight misfire under power but I haven't messed with the front of the injector pump to sort that yet, but it's still smoking like hell. But only white smoke, there's no coolant in the engine at all and slight white smoke is coming out the top hose port on the engine. Now what?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Ok I'll give it a go feed the pump with a bottle, see if its any better. Done this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue90 Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Ill give it a go tomorrow, what's does it mean if it works?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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