reb78 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I think this has been asked in the past, but I'm never sure of the answer. Can anyone point me to an electric lift pump to replace the mechanical one on my 200tdi? There are two reasons for the question. 1. The mechanical lift pumps just don't seem to last (seem to be replacing every two years and have tried various makes including Delphi and a very expensive LR OE part that was probably an overpriced Delphi) 2. If I ever get around to getting an auxiliary fuel tank made that fits in the passenger side rear wheel arch, I want to have two lift pumps in the SVO/diesel setup. I foresee a system with two filters (the SVO filter will be heated) I figure with this, that the pumps can be kept in the correct place in the line (I.e. Before the fuel filters). Whereas other SVO/diesel systems I have seen have the lift pump between the filter and the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 If you get a pump designed for SVO you should be good, they're stronger. I fitted a small electric pump when my mechanical died on the road and performace did improve. What I really need though is a fuel pressure gauge fitted just before the filter so I can tell when it is getting clogged as excessive backpressure seems to be what kills the diaphram pumps (they tear). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I've seen somebody using a td5 electric pump on a 200tdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landowner Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I've seen somebody using a td5 electric pump on a 200tdi Did it fit in the 110 tank then? Sounds like a plan for a friend of mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted December 15, 2013 Author Share Posted December 15, 2013 I've seen somebody using a td5 electric pump on a 200tdi I presume this would need a td5 tank as well though? I plan to use the main tank for SVO and a custom tank in the left side rear wing for diesel. My thoughts were two electric pumps mounted up on the bulkhead that took their feed from the feed to the pollack valve I have. That way, I should be able to set it up so that the correct pump runs when the correct fuel circuit is open and the other one can stop. (Although I suppose they could be left running as they would just circulate fuel back to the tank rather than dead head in that position in the line.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepé le Pew Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 excessive backpressure seems to be what kills the diaphram pumps (they tear). I disagree ajh. The mechanical diaphragm lift pumps are not able to build up pressure. They only build up a small pressure difference between the inlet and the outlet .Approx 3-5psi. If you block the outlet the pressure doesn't get any higher. I run my 2a with 2,25 petrol on LPG 99% of the time and the outlet of the lift pump is blocked solid by the shut-off valve when running on LPG. Haven't torn a diaphragm yet. Cheers, Eric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 The last 3 I've had fail had small slits torn in the diaphragm and all coincided with a fuel filter becoming plugged. I suppose that is just coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSD Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I've been using a Facet electric pump to replace the lift pump on my TGV for 3 years or so. It manages to keep up with the TGV thirst, which the standard 300tdi lift pump could not. I kept the mechanical lift pump installed as a spare (with a loop pipe from out to in, and fuel in it for lubrication). I used this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted December 16, 2013 Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 Thanks Dave. That's useful info. I might contact them to see if they have one they reckon would cope with SVO as well. I was wondering about leaving the old one in place as a spares as you suggest. New mechanical pump today I think to see me through Christmas, and these can be a project for the new year. (Along with new lights, fitting the series seat box to the middle row in the back, a frame bushes and ball joint, re-cover the headlining and insulate the roof, sort out the rear doors.....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Let us know what you find out Richard as I like your plan and will probably follow you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I've been using a Facet electric pump to replace the lift pump on my TGV for 3 years or so. It manages to keep up with the TGV thirst, which the standard 300tdi lift pump could not. I kept the mechanical lift pump installed as a spare (with a loop pipe from out to in, and fuel in it for lubrication). I used this one How have you wired it? Does it remain running when the ignition is on but engine is not running? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted December 16, 2013 Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 How have you wired it? Does it remain running when the ignition is on but engine is not running? Cheers I'm curious about this too. What might the issue be if it does run with ign on but engine off? Presumably it would just circulate fuel back to the tank if it is mounted before the filter? But, there will be a drain on the battery. Can you take a relayed feed from the alternator so it only runs when the alt is spinning (i.e. engine on?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSD Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Well, 3 years or so is still in the 'temporary install' category , so I just grabbed a feed from the shut off solenoid, so it runs if the ignition is switched on. There are no side effects that I found, other than a small additional battery drain (smaller than the stop solenoid). My only reservation is around crash safety, where you could imagine the pump merrily emptying the tank onto the road. The 'correct' way if probably to switch the feed with a relay triggered from the oil pressure switch. The Facet pump is rated for diesel use, don't know about SVO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 This might shed some light on your failing lift pumps: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=79858 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Reading all this, I am afraid I am having to question the point of going electric; isn't it always something electric that lets you down? Ok, some people on here have had problemes with the lift pump, which so far I have never had. I do like the option of being able to drive the car without electrics, which isn't possible anymore if you have an electric pump. I cant see the electric pump being more reliable. Even if it is, I would want to carry a spare, which is what I do anyway, so whether you carry an electric spare or a mechanical makes no ods tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted December 16, 2013 Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 For me Daan, the failing mechanical pumps are only one part of it. If I setup an SVO twin tank system, all of the ways I've seen this done involve relocating the one lift pump to between the filter and FIP. Using two switched electric pumps would allow them to remain in their original positions before the filters. I just can't get my head around putting the lift pump after the filter since it's job is to lift fuel to the filter to sit there as a reservoir for the injection pump, not to pull fuel through the filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSD Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I do like the option of being able to drive the car without electrics, which isn't possible anymore The Bosch VE FIP includes a fuel supply pump and is usually quite capable of running the car perfectly well on its own, if a little down on power. My Ibex ran perfectly sweetly up to about 55mph with no lift pump installed. Miketomcat drove back from the Pyrenees with no lift pump fitted in his 200tdi Disco, and he was keeping up with me at 70mph before we parted company. All that's needed is to remove the failed pump from the piping, and keep the system primed and airtight. I dumped the mechanical pump because the brand new 300tdi part limited me to about 70-75mph, and the original International part wasn't easily available. The Facet pump immediately returned my top speed to being limited by colour of trousers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Can you take a relayed feed from the alternator so it only runs when the alt is spinning (i.e. engine on?) Your alternator wont like you for that, much better using the oil pressure switch to trigger a relay, i'll do this eventually for my heated seats, heated screens and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovernut Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 From Powerspark Ltd there is a range of electric self regulating piston fuel pumps they say are capable of supplying fuel up to 5 ltr engine capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I presume this would need a td5 tank as well though? I plan to use the main tank for SVO and a custom tank in the left side rear wing for diesel. My thoughts were two electric pumps mounted up on the bulkhead that took their feed from the feed to the pollack valve I have. That way, I should be able to set it up so that the correct pump runs when the correct fuel circuit is open and the other one can stop. (Although I suppose they could be left running as they would just circulate fuel back to the tank rather than dead head in that position in the line.) Don't mount on bulkhead. These pumps are designed to rather deliver at pressure, and not have to suck fuel from too far away. Rather mount them close to the tank where they can have a flooded suction. Heat on bulkhead might also be a bit much. I know, I once was stranded by the roadside when a bulkhead mounted Facet called it a day. Was simply getting too hot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Reading all this, I am afraid I am having to question the point of going electric; isn't it always something electric that lets you down? Ok, some people on here have had problemes with the lift pump, which so far I have never had. I do like the option of being able to drive the car without electrics, which isn't possible anymore if you have an electric pump. I cant see the electric pump being more reliable. Even if it is, I would want to carry a spare, which is what I do anyway, so whether you carry an electric spare or a mechanical makes no ods tbh.If you have to bleed the fuel system, that electric pump could be a winner (depending on where it gets it's power) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark-d Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I have been running the electric fuel pump from a 2.25 petrol for over a year without a problem. I fitted the blank from a 2.25 engine where the lift pump used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddychris300tdi Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 It's been a while and wondered if you went ahead and fitted the electric pumps? I've been thinking about fitting one to my Disco Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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