ianmayco68 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Hi all , have developed a clunk when changing gear but also happens when you take your foot off the accelerator then re apply it which I thought ruled out the clutch which is new anyway, so put her over the pit at the weekend with wheels chocked and hand brake off to have a look. It appears it might be the rear axle , I measured the movement by turning the prop full one way marking it at 6 o'clock the moving it the other way marking it again the measuring the distance between the marks (don't know wether that's the correct way to do it) and both we're 20 mm , the only noticeable difference was the front axle was stiffer as in a more controlled movement but the back when moving was way looser and made a clunk when it reached the end of its travel. Is this normal ? Or have I got a problem and if so any ideas of were to look ? I've done a search but found nothing pacific to this , the axle has been converted to discs and as always any help much appreciated. cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timc1967 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I don't know the answer, but in my limited experience, I haven't driven one without this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Unless the oil has been low for a long time, it's highly unlikely you have a diff problem. The outer splines on the half shafts and the splines on the drive flanges wear - the flanges are quite soft and from the 300, they put inside the axle to keep those flanges dry, which exacerbates their wear tremendously. Whip the plastic caps off the hubs and rotate the wheel a bit back and forth. There should be minimal play between the shaft and drive flange (none, ideally), but I'll wager you have a fair bit. You can replace the drive flanges quite cheaply, but higher quality HD flanges will last longer (be wary of the cheap ones, get Ashcroft not the cheap ones in the magazines and at your local non-franchised dealer). Check the shaft splines when you remove the flanges - they do wear, but much slower than the flanges, so are likely to have little more than a slight step and be fine. Also take a look at the suspension joints, especially the A frame ball joint above the diff - that is notorious for wear and banging on torque application/removal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Snagger has hit the nail on the head. I can't add anything more that's useful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 Cheers Snagger , a frame ball joint is new as is all suspension and bushes when I did the rebuild also replaced drive flanges with hd ones from paddocks but as you said not cheap ones will get her in the garage at the weekend and check what you've suggested will let you know what I find . I did check the axles over and they seemed fine but she was off the road for 2 1/2 years so didn't know if some damage occurred on start up and using her again . cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I had similar and the drive shaft splines were like sharp teeth with the flanges warn to suit them. After replacing I still had a clunk although not as bad. I lived with it having re-bushed the suspension but eventually and I don't know why I didn't notice sooner but I eventually realised the remaining clunk was the rear prop. The splined joint was quite warn and a new prop sorted it. So maybe check that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 Cheers Peaklander will check that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil110 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 The amount of slop that can develop in the driveline can be quite significant. A little bit on the sliding joint, some between pinion and crown wheel, a bit between diff and half shaft, some more between half shaft and drive member. It can quite enlightening to lie beneath the truck, with the back axle on stands and see how far you can turn the prop shaft before the wheels start to rotate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I bought a diff from HfH which had zero slop but once fitted to the front axle of a suffix A RRC the stub axle spline wear on each end gave almost 45 deg of movement of the pinion end up and down when the axle was off the vehicle but with wheels on the ground. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 Cheers all ,will get her in the shed Saturday and have a good look ,check everything that's been suggested and tell you my findings ,would do it earlier but on he dead mans shift this week so not really got the time. cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 Just in case I need to replace the half shafts I've looked on Ashcroft website for there price is there any other make or company that does any better ones ? cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil110 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Not sure if anybody does better half shafts but if it helps set your mind at ease I have had Ashcroft half shafts and drive members fitted to my back axle for 8 years without any problems whatsoever. Though when I had it all in bits I removed the stub axle oil seals and it now runs wet hubs In a previous incarnation it had dry hubs, 300 type drive members, stubs and seals. A half shaft failed because of condensation in the end of the axle emulsifying the grease, leading to the half shaft and drive member rusting away Edited July 12, 2017 by neil110 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Sorry, I evidently mis-typed something in my reply. The 300 Tdi and later axles have a seal added in the axle case, just inboard of the stub axle, or maybe in the inboard end f the stub axle itself, to keep the diff oil ou of the hubs, and it is what keeps the drive flange splines dry. It's best to remove those seals. You should be able to check for spline wear by unscrewing the caps on the flanges you fitted. If you see movement, then remove the flanges and check the shafts themselves. Unless they are very thin (50%), then they won't fail and you can just live with the backlash. There should be a small amount of play in the system to allow good oil circulation, to cater for thermal expansion and to permit a small amount of flex under load; if it was tight, it'd overheat and disintegrate in no time at all. Ashcroft shafts are very high quality. If you compete, then they may be of benefit, but if you use your 110 normally, then standard shafts will be quite adequate and cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 She's a 200 tdi converted from drums to discs so would imagine it's an early axle , used the diesel Jim method when I converted it so shouldn't have the seals. It's a daily driver will do some towing and lug fishing gear about also plan to do some green laning at some point so will have to decide which to go for. Cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 In that case, the longer, wet shaft splines are likely ok. They may have a little wear, perhaps even enough to cause some backlash with new flanges, but it's unlikely they're weakened or in need of replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 Cheers Snagger will see what movement there is before it engages then if there's play slide the shafts out and take a look. Am I right in thinking that if remove the flanges I can slide the shafts out without taking the hub off? Also is it best to have both rear wheels off the floor when you check or can you do it one side at a time ? cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil110 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Simpler than that, if you unbolt the flanges and lift them off, without removing the circlip, the shaft will come with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 Cheers Neil thought I could but been a while since I'd put it back together, no need for a strip down. cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 Well jacked her up and marking the tyre at 12 then moving it , it only moves about 20 mm before it engages the prop so I would think the shafts are fine. There is a clunk when it engages but don't think I've got a serious problem unless anyone has any other ideas like a bearing or something cheers all for the help . cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 That's sounds very good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 That sounds entirely normal. Don't forget that you have four sets of splines on the half shafts (two per shaft), then the backlash in the differential gears, plus any endfloat they have developed, plus the backlash of the crown wheel and pinion gear before you see motion on the prop shaft. Those bits of play increase over the years, but there should be some for lubrication purposes anyway. That's why Land Rovers all rock a bit on the hand brake (which some poorly trained MoT testers still incorrectly fail them for). Your description sounds healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 Cheers all sorted another problem I didn't have . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil110 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 They are the best kind of problem 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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