Tyres

[Bandog]

Hello to you all, I posted some time ago about confusing issues about M+S markings and knobbly mud tyres being horrible apart from in mud etc. You get the picture. 

I recently bought some general grabber AT3s for my series modified hybrid at 265/70/16 on a 7x16 modular rim. 

The suspension is rocky mountain, so I dont have any clearance issues, and my salisbury diff is a bit higher off the ground than was before. These tyres give me a huge 10.4 width same as the 265/75/16s fitted on newer defenders, without the extra height to upset my low range gears too much, and improve 5th gear cruising. However I did notice this much, on purchasing a stray grabber AT2 for the spare, the old design has much more tread depth than the new.

I could not get my head round why the spare tyre AT2 was so much bigger, and on the internet more expensive than the new and long awaited AT3. Theres why.

They are going to behave better on the road without the big blocks squirming around so much. These AT3s have sipes and the 3 peaks snow symbol on the sidewall. 

Thanks to tyres direct I paid 109 each for them. Next batches are coming in in october , so I got mine while I could.

[Bandog]

what i should have said is poor value like everything these days ( waggon wheels and mars bars) less for the same!

[dave88sw]

I've noticed a similar thing with other brands.  I've been trying to make a decision for weeks about tyres, initially deciding on the new (ish) cooper discoverer stt pro.  However, i've watched lots of youtube videos reviewing them and when you compare the newer stt pro to the original stt, there is noticeably less tread on the newer one.  I wonder if its something to do with road noise, perhaps the deeper tread increases the howl on the road?

The only tyres that appear to have the very deep tread that you used to get across the board are the BFG's but my budget won't stretch to that.

[miketomcat]

The thing to remember with bfg's yes they are more expensive but I've got around 50000 miles on a set and they are still at 8mm of tread. 

Mike

[Retroanaconda]

Indeed they do last well, though mine have not faired as well as Mike's above.

I've put 70,000 on them (BFG ATs - old style) in the last two years and they're just about worn out. Still road legal but wouldn't be much good in the mud - probably 2-4mm of tread.

New set planned for later this year, trouble is I hate the aggressive sidewall on the new style so might have to go for another brand. Or just suck it up!

[Snagger]

New compounds may wear slower, so they don't need the tread depth.  The deeper the tread, the greater the deformation on road, reducing performance and economy, and increasing tyre heat and wear, so if they can get them to last as long with less tread, it could be an improvement.

[geoffbeaumont]

Could be an improvement in on road performance - but are they likely to have managed to maintain off road performance with a reduction in tread depth? I'm not a tyre expert, so maybe it's possible - but it doesn't seem likely?

[Snagger]

5 minutes ago, geoffbeaumont said:

Could be an improvement in on road performance - but are they likely to have managed to maintain off road performance with a reduction in tread depth? I'm not a tyre expert, so maybe it's possible - but it doesn't seem likely?

I can't imagine there's much difference off road between two otherwise identical tyres of 15mm depth and 10mm depth.  I would guess that they'd produce similar grip down to 5mm or so.  It'd be interesting to see if there are results of any tests out there.  I'm only guessing at it, but deep tread produces the same shear area on whatever surface it's on as shallower tread, as long as there is space to allow liquid to escape.  Deep treads fill with mud or snow, seemingly behaving like shallow tread or even slicks.  I would think it's only the extreme tyres that show a big difference off road for different depths of tread. 

[Maverik]

I've just swapped the AT2's out on the camel disco for some Grabber X3's, first impressions are pretty good.

[Bandog]

I really wanted to use the x3s, but my head overruled the decision due to the road problem, and so much time spent on it.

These AT3s are very very quiet indeed.

Dave 88, cooper stt pro are fitted as standard to military vehicles, and get good reviews. Not sure about the value, anything other than a remould seem to be around 140 a piece. Like snagger says though, if the longevity of a more expensive boot is better, its swings and roundabouts.

I guess these is the old adage of  'jack of all, master of none' which leads me back to the obvious 2 sets of wheels and tyres mindset again, or even 3 when it comes down to ice and snow.

[Snagger]

BFG ATs are pretty good as an all round tyre, and last very well on road.  They performed a lot better on icey and snowy UK roads than the road biased Michellins fitted to my 90XS by LR, or the road biased Hankook ATs I briefly had on my RRC.  I reckon with something like them, you'd never need more than two sets, if you need something more aggressive for playing in mud.

[Troll Hunter]

I've had General Grabber AT2 265/75/16 for a number of years and have used them mainly in the summer months, despite them having the snowflake and mountain symbols.  And I love them.  Original tread depth was ~ 13mm, and the six tyres have been routinely rotated - only front to rear to spare (2), because they are directional, and I've done 150,000+km.  Ride and road holding are good, and off-road they have always performed adequately, and, I've not had a single puncture, despite doing a lot of mileage on unmade roads.  I must admit that I don't like them in the snow.  They are too wide and don't cut through to tarmac, they tend to float too much.  For winter I use a Michelin 205 Alpina, which I also find very good.  Unfortunately, I'll have to replace both sets next summer as they are now too old, although there is 4+mm on the AT2s and the Michelins are virtually unwarn.  So, I'll be concentrating very much on threads on tyre choices from now on.

Mike

[Maverik]

I ran AT2's on the 90 for a few years, general all around performance except going through puddles at any kind of speed, they where 265/75/R16 pretty wide, exchanged them for the Goodyear Wrangler MTR's 235/85/R16 much better wet weather handling in my opinion.

I also had AT2's on the Camel (briefly) 235/70/R16 but oddly these had a really low load rating max pressure being 40psi, which didn't really work very well... I think I might have been caught out with that one, hence the change now to a higher load rated tyre being the x3.

I've now got BFG commercial tyres on the 90 a slight less aggressive version of the wrangler MTR's.

[Bandog]

interesting stuff men. Especially the input from the Maple leaf end of the world, where the snow is a much more probable likely hood.

I am not sure but I think the x3 grabbers are not designed with road use at all in mind, but I may be wrong. Would they have a compound that wears too quickly with lotts of tarmac use in mind?