Geoff Jones Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Greetings... I'm about to assist a good friend with his Timing Belt change. I've learned from doing my own TB that often the water pump removal can be an issue with broken bolts, My question is , besides soaking the bolts prior to removal with Liquid Wrench... would heat be appropriate? Not excessive heat, but perhaps a little propane prior to attempting to remove. Or, do we risk warping the aluminum timing belt cover. I've lived through the horror of getting broken bolts out, drilling out stubs, or re-tapping holes to a larger size and would like to spare us the agony. Any advice is welcome, thanks in advance.. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 This can be a problem. Penetrating oil as you suggest is a good idea. Have you tried to loosen them yet? Before you try any heat, I always attempt to just slightly loosen the bolts to see if they will move when the engine is fully warmed up and everything expanded. If they still won't move then a bit of heat from a gas torch is fine. Also tap them firmly with a hammer (being careful not to strike the aluminium cover). When reassembling clean the threads out on both the screws and holes with a tap and die, then smear some copper grease on each srew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Agree with "Monkey" and if not in a rush I'm a fan of repeated tapping of the bolt head then let it soak in Penetrating oil for a good few hours and repeating etc. I've just got it in my head that the tapping helps to break the crud/rust bond and allows the oil to soak further down the bolt threads. Jaysus knows how Pen' oil manages to find is way down the threads, if it does at all. Copper grease is a saviour next time round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Consider having a new water pump to hand in case things get ugly.... Heat will be fine, you will have to get it REALLY hot to warp the timing cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 If you get the bolt started but it is tight on the threads, then unwind until it tightens and then wind back in, then back out and take a lttle bite out of the tight spot then wind in again. Repeat until the bolt winds out. The in and out motion just clears the threads and prevents a build up of rusty crud which locks the thread. This in my experience is the biggest cause of broken bolts. HTH Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 A good thump on the end with a hammer before you start attempting to undo them can also work wonders. Also a 6 sided socket and then replacing them with proper bolts wouldn't go a miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Jones Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 Thank you all for your collective wisdom... All seven bolts out with no problem. Replaced with new bolts and copper slip to prevent future issues. Thanks again, Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Back the train up a wee bit... don't use copper slip on the bolts, this I believe actually speeds up the galvanic process of getting the bolts stuck! there was some debate on it in one of my threads after I changed the water pump on my 200tdi, so much so that I'll be taking the bolts out shortly one by one and removing the copper slip as best I can and replacing with something non metallic based. Copper slip + steel bolts + aluminium housing + in warm damp setting = galvanic cell.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Personally I have not experienced this as a problem, that said I think it depends upon what "copper grease" you use. If they are mixed with other stuff like graphite and anti corrosive substances as some are then I don't think this is any particular issue. However if you are worried about this/have had this problem using a certain copper grease or you are using stainless steel bolts which will react with aluminium quite readily then you can use an anti seize grease with no metals. Have a look at this link for various anti-seize compunds and applications (*other brands are available ) https://www.all-spec.com/loctite-anti-seize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I've had no problem either, all be it only over a 20 year period of Landy use. My working life was in a refinery that used copper grease in every conceivable combination of metals, uses and abuses, by the gallon. I never heard of an issue. Can't think that copper would be any more of a catalyst than straight alluminium to steel galvanic action as on my doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 It's as Maverik says, the theory being that two dissimilar metals set up a galvonic cell. But I think there is a lot more to it in a grease formulation which is why some of us have and some of us haven't experienced this issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_ Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Having recently fitted my mud flap kit which included steel bolts etc onto Ali.... the kit came with a tube of K48 Moly grease to prevent (or slow) the reaction between the two metals. Hmmmm something to ponder as I’ve also done the water pump last year. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I copper greased my water pump bolts in my 200 Tdi 7 years ago when I fitted the water pump. Last summer I replaced the water pump and the bolts came out easy as pie. I don't know much about galvanic corrosion but I do know that I re copper slipped them and I'm quite confident the bolts will come out next time I need them too ... or the next owner will as I'm going V8 again 😉 Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Like Mo I have every confidence in copper grease. I've not come across any adverse effect from using it either as a LR owner or my working life in industry. It would take some "scientific" type proof for me (and industries) to stop using it as anti seizure measure in all normal circumstances and uses. Each to their own but I'm more than happy happy using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cchase Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Copper slip gets a big thumbs up from me...except that it gets everywhere if you are not careful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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