Ed Poore Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 1 hour ago, dangerous doug said: We’re getting a bit muddled here. Horsepower is a byproduct of torque (torque x RPM / 5252) so the 1uz will always make more power than the rover due to it revving higher. The rover(from my experience) makes good torque low down which is why I like it….which the Lexus doesn’t have so it’s all relative in the end number. Very true but then the Lexus can handle more power and therefore torque thrown at it. It's all a question of where you want it developed (which I think is more a byproduct of the crank / bore design than anything in NA vehicles). As you say it's all swings and roundabouts but there's no denying the 1UZ can handle more power thrown at it and revs higher which in Stephens situation is the crucial bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ed Poore said: Very true but then the Lexus can handle more power and therefore torque thrown at it. It's all a question of where you want it developed (which I think is more a byproduct of the crank / bore design than anything in NA vehicles). As you say it's all swings and roundabouts but there's no denying the 1UZ can handle more power thrown at it and revs higher which in Stephens situation is the crucial bit. And that is the difference between engines that were designed 50 years apart 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted July 28, 2023 Author Share Posted July 28, 2023 I would love to join in with this conversation as it is being discussed to my benefit..... but 80% of it is leaving me behind, thank God your all trying to help and not hinder........ Regards Stephen 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 More cylinders = more noise = more smiles and that's what matters* * simplification but who cares 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted July 28, 2023 Author Share Posted July 28, 2023 2 hours ago, dangerous doug said: what transmission do you plan on using Stephen? Ahhh a question I understand..... As much as @Bowie69 would like me to ( he has conspired with others on this forum to steer me in certain directions ) I'm not sold on an automatic, have had no experience with them at all, but I suppose you can say that about a 1uz as well What I do have is a couple of R380 disco gearboxes, a couple of LT77 defender/110 boxes, a 2a with a series 3 bell housing on it and a series 1 box of unknowns condition I don't know what the relative strengths are however, the 2a box was behind a 3.5 V8 for over a decade and then a tdi with no issues even when I was doing modified trials with it So I'm in you hands to a certain degree as to which transmission road to take, my only real contribution I suppose is having half a chance of making it all fit together, something about where there's a will........... Really appreciate the discussion guys regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 I think in your situation whatever is the shortest is going to win. If you speak to people shoving 1UZ/3UZs into race trucks for a living then an R380 needs upgrading. However fundamentally it's not massively more powerful nor torquey than other engines that have been shoved infront of them, in stock form of the 1UZ you are within the 380Nm rating for the gearbox. Also @FridgeFreezer and I, amongst others, are of the opinion the smoothness of the V8s torque delivery is a lot nicer to the gearbox than a lumpy Tdi banging away. Ultimately any gearbox will break if you abuse it enough. So I'd first go and see which of the various more "modern" boxes you have (LT77 and R380) is the shortest overall otherwise you may be into issues with props and so on. When I put it all together a 1UZ with 1.5" adapter plate coupled to a Defender R380 and LT230 is pretty much the same length as the 300Tdi setup, it just fills the space a LOT more being a big box of 90° V8 goodness. I'm guessing a 200Tdi isn't massively different in terms of length to a 300Tdi so you shouldn't be that far off. The question is whether you'll have to shunt the thing forwards or backwards to clear the shock towers etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted July 28, 2023 Author Share Posted July 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, Ed Poore said: @FridgeFreezer the question is whether you'll have to shunt the thing forwards or backwards to clear the shock towers etc. Or move the shock towers........ Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 You'd need an R380 with a short bell housing. Also, how short is the rear prop shaft? I reckon, in order to make this engine clear the front diff (at full bump!), I reckon it needs going up and backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Stellaghost said: Ahhh a question I understand..... As much as @Bowie69 would like me to ( he has conspired with others on this forum to steer me in certain directions ) I'm not sold on an automatic, have had no experience with them at all, but I suppose you can say that about a 1uz as well What I do have is a couple of R380 disco gearboxes, a couple of LT77 defender/110 boxes, a 2a with a series 3 bell housing on it and a series 1 box of unknowns condition I don't know what the relative strengths are however, the 2a box was behind a 3.5 V8 for over a decade and then a tdi with no issues even when I was doing modified trials with it So I'm in you hands to a certain degree as to which transmission road to take, my only real contribution I suppose is having half a chance of making it all fit together, something about where there's a will........... Really appreciate the discussion guys regards Stephen got to be a stumpy r380…..the lt77 at a push 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 R380, if you can't be convinced of an auto Ideally with a short bellhousing as it gives you more options for placement in the chassis. I doubt you'll run into prop length issues as you have stretched Sid a little bit.... From a weight perspective, back would always be preferable, of course. With the 1UZ being so much lighter you may not need to change your front springs after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Daan said: I reckon, in order to make this engine clear the front diff (at full bump!), I reckon it needs going up and backwards. The Soarer rather than LS400 had a rear sump on a 1UZ and there are kits available to weld up your own, or dry sump it. It's actually quite a shallow sump and at least on my mockup might even get away without changing the setup on a fairly standard 110. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5toV8110 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Whatever LR 'box you choose it WILL be the fuse in your set up.... (even a pimped up R380) 'Yota bombproof engine - LR 'box of choice (fuse😁) - Bombproof diffs/axles When the tyres grip onto something grippy then you blip the juice pedal your fuse will blow.... Unless you drive with sympathy (which I'm sure you will) Just don't let anyone else "have a go" 🤪 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 An R380 should be fine, the 1uz puts out about the rating of 380NM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 9 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: An R380 should be fine, the 1uz puts out about the rating of 380NM. Due to the portal reduction I would be surprised if it ever saw that without extreme violence. I recently found a thread demonstrating the consequences of the side loadings in the portal box with 400hp so potentially the gearbox is not the weak link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Cue Stephen trying to find some bits of the Bismark to reinforce his portals... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, Ed Poore said: Cue Stephen trying to find some bits of the Bismark to reinforce his portals... that was a reinforced box, the guy had to resort to a fabricacet box at $750 each looking at it though, it’s nothing beyond his capabilities. Almost simple😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 @dangerous doug, do you know what tyres were on that grenaded portal box? Also what terrain ? Rock crawling in the Moab is a lot different to bog hopping in the borders. I think the V8 will work fine for Stephen's truck and for me I think auto would work really well. The constraint is space for the extra length but that could be mitigated by extending the wheelbase a little more if needed maybe? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 1 minute ago, steve b said: @dangerous doug, do you know what tyres were on that grenaded portal box? Also what terrain ? Rock crawling in the Moab is a lot different to bog hopping in the borders. I think the V8 will work fine for Stephen's truck and for me I think auto would work really well. The constraint is space for the extra length but that could be mitigated by extending the wheelbase a little more if needed maybe? Steve Can’t say100% he claimed to run KOH where he snapped a flange off of a narrowed mog casing. Don’t get me wrong, this truck does not see an easy life but just thinking out loud that clutch dumps and side loads from helical gears will kill a portal box before an r380…..happy to be proven wrong though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Also, 250bhp is quite different to 400, plus Stephen is quite the sensible driver.... At least what I've seen Plus, welded diff casings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) @dangerous doug Indeed , that was what I was alluding to . I'm very interested to see the weighbridge number for Sid as weight and excess transmission load are related and that roach is no chunker by any standards Steve Edited July 28, 2023 by steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, steve b said: I think the V8 will work fine for Stephen's truck and for me I think auto would work really well. The A340 box in the LS400 is amazingly compact. If I remember correctly this had the front of the bell housing where a Defender / 300Tdi R380 sat in relation to the LT230. As you can see there's plenty of space for an adapter but the rear output housing (you can see a bolt loose on it) is also removable because that's where the Jeep transfer box bolts up (I think, @Bowie69 can confirm as he's seen those boxes, I haven't). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Yup, the Jeep AW4 transmission is an alternative name for the A340, it has a different tail housing for the 4wd setup, you can buy adapters to join that box to the LT230.... The Toyota Surf auto box and chain drive transfer works with these as well if you want a centre rear output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Adapter: https://www.onlinegearboxparts.com/product/jeep-aw4-transmission-to-lt230-adapter-kit/ Stephen, other than LGT, have you drive autos much off road? With your low gearing you'd still get pretty good engine braking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted July 28, 2023 Author Share Posted July 28, 2023 19 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: Stephen is quite the sensible driver.... At least what I've seen There's a few people in my past would be laughing themselves silly if they read that........ I'll need to see what I can do to alter that illusion Regards Stephen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted July 28, 2023 Author Share Posted July 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Bowie69 said: Adapter: https://www.onlinegearboxparts.com/product/jeep-aw4-transmission-to-lt230-adapter-kit/ Stephen, other than LGT, have you drive autos much off road? With your low gearing you'd still get pretty good engine braking. Only auto I've ever driven was my mums Saab 900.... Regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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