LT230 spacer for intermediate gear

[neil110]

According to the LR LT230 overhaul manual (CAUTION: The spacer fitted must be of the selective length, non-collapsible type, DO NOT fit a collapsible spacer) they have stopped using the collapsible spacer and you now have to choose a spacer of a pre determined length. There are 40 to choose from but I have not been able to find a part No for any of them. 

Can anybody point me in the right direction, please?

Edited April 13, 2020 by neil110

[western]

http://cat.lrparts.ru/?category=119443

Looks to be for lt230 prefix 43D or later. not sure how you would figure out which spacer tube to use, Ashcroft transmissions would be a good place to start. 

 

If its a pre td5, there is just one I believe, https://www.brit-car.co.uk/search.php?query=FRC7437&xBrand=&part_type=&xSupplierID=&product-sort=&xPerPage=10

 

 

[neil110]

Thanks Ralph.

The manual covers the following transfer boxes

Serial No. Prefixes: 20D, 22D, 32D, 43D, 47D, 56D, 57D, 58D, 59D, and 60D - Defender Serial No. Prefixes: 28D, 34D, 41D, 42D Discovery Serial No. Prefixes: 14D, 15D, 20D, 26D, 27D, 28D and 30D - Range Rover Classic

It also details how to measure up for which spacer you need, requires a special tool, a micrometer and a dial gauge. The special tool is a bit spendy but worth it for peace of mind

I will just have to wait until it is all measured up and go to a dealer for the relevant part

[western]

My LT230is a 22D, I just used the spacer on the Brit-car page & did it up to elimnate the excess slack.

[neil110]

Fair enough but given the caution in the manual which specifically says do not use a collapsible spacer...........................

[lo-fi]

I wonder why the change. I've always used collapsible spacers as that's what the manual used to say and was supplied with the Ashcroft kits. The fixed spacer is a better, but far less convenient solution. 

[western]

Which exact manual are you using & what vehicle year/model, 

This is one of my manuals 

[neil110]

http://www.d2owner.com/Manuals/LT230T Transfer Gearbox.pdf

Page 43 contains the relevant information

 

The vehicle is a 1984 One_Ten fitted with 4.2 V8, R380 and 22D LT230 suffix "G"

Edited April 14, 2020 by neil110

[western]

link does not work, 

my LT230 is a 22D suffix C, I recently replaced the intermediate shaft/bearings/spacer, & used the one mentioned in my earlier post, the manual I pictured above says nothing about different spacer lengths to set the bearing preload,  I would suggest a email to Ashcroft Transmissions for their view.

[Vogler]

Western, you probably didn't get the complete link <- this should do it

It's the 3rd edition, of 2000, Publication Part No. LRL 0081ENG, where it is written in capitals and in colour not to use a crush tube.

I have recently read or heard mention on one of the Land Rover related YouTube channels that Ashcroft use collapsible tubes in all their LT230 rebuilds.

Greetings,

Joris

[western]

 Do you have access to the LRT 41-017 special tools & DTI, if not I would ask Ashcrofts for their advice. I suspect that manual is newer than your G suffix LT230. 

[neil110]

Yes, I have a DTI and a micrometer, the special tool is £53 from JLR

https://jlrequipment.service-solutions.com/en-GB/Pages/ItemDetail.aspx?SKU=307-484

 

If i was simply refitting the existing gearset I was going to have a friend turn me up a spacer the same size as the collapsible spacer that came out.

However I am changing the gear ratio which will necessitate fitting new bearings, for the intermediate gear, so it seems sensible to follow the latest, or current, practice when putting it all back together.

Edited April 15, 2020 by neil110

[western]

Sometimes the latest info is not for earlier parts, I would go with the collapsible spacer & go with the info for adjusting the preload & I would still ask Ashcrofts for their view.

[oneandtwo]

majority of rebuilders use the collapsible spacer on all boxes.

I rebuilt my late LT230, replaced the intermediate shaft bearings with identical Timkens, fitted the original selective spacer and the preload was out so had to use the collapsible spacer.

[Bigj66]

Hope you don’t mind me jumping in here but I’m also working on my suffix E LT230 and have a question about how to determine ‘uneven wear’ on the input gear and intermediate gear teeth. The LR manual just says to check for this uneven wear without specifying what that should be so I’m wondering if there is a way to establish this?

I have a clip of the play between the teeth on my input gear and he intermediate gear below. For some reason it doesn’t show up as a clip in the post but it should play or if not I can upload it to YT.

I have taken the input gear out and looked at the teeth and there is no damage or chipping to them and the wear pattern seems to be even on all of them. The only thing I did note is that the teeth seem to be a bit more ‘pointed’ at the top compared to the machined flat point on other gears. Looking at photos of new input gears it’s hard to tell for certain if this is normal for this particular gear or, if mine are excessively worn.

Im sure that backlash between the teeth isn’t normal so I’m assuming that there is excessive wear somewhere but if anyone can let me know a more accurate way to check then it would be appreciated.

[western]

Moving this to Defender forum, as it has grown into a discussion rather than just a part number request. 

[lo-fi]

They look fine @Bigj66

What you're seeing there is "profile shifted" teeth. Without getting too technical (I'm a bit of a gear nerd), the tooth profile has been designed to give the teeth a larger, stronger root, which makes them more "pointy". Quite common practice.

What you need to check is wear on the inside splines. I have yet to see a set that aren't ruined and in need of replacement. 

[neil110]

11 hours ago, oneandtwo said:

majority of rebuilders use the collapsible spacer on all boxes.

I rebuilt my late LT230, replaced the intermediate shaft bearings with identical Timkens, fitted the original selective spacer and the preload was out so had to use the collapsible spacer.

Did you measure the thickness of the replacement bearings? Did you measure the step distance on the special tool after you had fitted the bearing tracks and "settled" the bearings?

Edited April 16, 2020 by neil110

[Bigj66]

53 minutes ago, lo-fi said:

They look fine @Bigj66

What you're seeing there is "profile shifted" teeth. Without getting too technical (I'm a bit of a gear nerd), the tooth profile has been designed to give the teeth a larger, stronger root, which makes them more "pointy". Quite common practice.

What you need to check is wear on the inside splines. I have yet to see a set that aren't ruined and in need of replacement. 

Well it’s good to know you are a gear nerd as I only have a limited knowledge of the subject.👍

Which splines are you referring to? Is it the ones that sit on the output shaft of the gearbox? If so then I fitted the input gear onto the ZF output shaft and there was no play in it at all. It was just those teeth that concerned me and the clunk between them and the intermediate cluster gear. What is the likely cause of that as I expect I would feel and hear that every time I put the box into drive?

[lo-fi]

Yes, both the splines on the box and on the inside of the input gear. Post some pics? Not always detectable by feel.

There will always be some backlash, but unless it's really gross I doubt the clunk you're hearing originates there. Spline wear or worn diff are often culprits, but they're a bit agricultural at the best of times. 

[Bigj66]

34 minutes ago, lo-fi said:

Yes, both the splines on the box and on the inside of the input gear. Post some pics? Not always detectable by feel.

There will always be some backlash, but unless it's really gross I doubt the clunk you're hearing originates there. Spline wear or worn diff are often culprits, but they're a bit agricultural at the best of times. 

The play is definitely between the input gear and the intermediate cluster from what I can tell.

 

 

[lo-fi]

Tiny bit of wear, but nothing serious there. May even have been changed at some point in its life. 

How much play are we talking? Half mm, or more? 

[Bigj66]

52 minutes ago, lo-fi said:

Tiny bit of wear, but nothing serious there. May even have been changed at some point in its life. 

How much play are we talking? Half mm, or more? 

Are you able to view that clip I posted? You can hear the clunk between the input and intermediate gears when I move it as if the teeth need to move closer to each other before they make contact but I’m not sure if that’s normal or not.

If I turn either of the prop flanges then you hear the same noise but the source is definitely from the input area.

The box has definitely been worked on as there are signs of recent black sealant on the various covers etc. That input gear isn’t one of the cross drilled ones though that are recommended to be fitted these days. 

Maybe just replace that input gear?

[lo-fi]

Ah, missed that. It's a little on the high side, but not crazy. Best replaced anyway as you've got the first signs of spline wear and lack of cross drilling.

Might be worth checking that the intermediate shaft holes aren't worn oval. 

[cackshifter]

Re the collapsible spacer, would it be valid to build it with that then take it out, measure it,  and turn up a solid equivalent? Do we have any idea why the collapsible one isn't OK according to JLR?