reb78 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Did you run it for long after its first start? I'm no expert but I wonder if this is just oil from the rebuild?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngengineer Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, reb78 said: Did you run it for long after its first start? I'm no expert but I wonder if this is just oil from the rebuild?? I've run it around 20 minutes on the road and few minutes on idle after I rebuilt it to check for leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Hmm. I guess that would get it hot enough to burn off any coatings of oil from the rebuild? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngengineer Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, reb78 said: Hmm. I guess that would get it hot enough to burn off any coatings of oil from the rebuild? You would certainly think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I would take it for an hours drive, 30 or 40 miles, get it properly hot and see what you have on return. 20 minute drive isn't going to tell you much. Go and get it hot. Mo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Looks like you've done a nice job there. I don't think that looks like lots of oil to me. Don't forget that you smother oil all over the place when reassembling. Does it smell of burning oil when running, are you leaving any white smoke when driving? When you have got it warm from a run, have you left it idling and removed the oil filler to see what the breathing is like? I would do a few good long runs of varied driving. Check the oil level before each run to keep an eye on oil consumption. Then see what it is like after a couple of good long trips, up hills, along main roads to get your speed up. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 As I have discovered after fitting an oil pressure gauge to my 300TDI, it takes a long time for the oil to get to operating temperature (indicated by lower pressure). It is much longer than the water temperature takes to get to normal. My water gauge is normal within about 10mins but the oil pressure (temperature) follows after about 30mins and even then when the vehicle isn't worked hard the pressure remains higher. So I agree with the learned ones, that a much longer drive might help. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngengineer Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, monkie said: Looks like you've done a nice job there. I don't think that looks like lots of oil to me. Don't forget that you smother oil all over the place when reassembling. Does it smell of burning oil when running, are you leaving any white smoke when driving? When you have got it warm from a run, have you left it idling and removed the oil filler to see what the breathing is like? I would do a few good long runs of varied driving. Check the oil level before each run to keep an eye on oil consumption. Then see what it is like after a couple of good long trips, up hills, along main roads to get your speed up. I've not yet no. When I had the breather off it was chuffing a bit but the engine was cold and only just fired up from rebuild. As for the oil, well yes, when I reassembled I did cover the pistons, rings, groves, cylinders in allot of oil. However I would have assumed it would have burnt off by now. There is a very strong oil burning smell however it's clearly coming from the oil dripping into the manifold which fills the cab up with smoke. The exhaust is smokey but the pump is tuned and does overfuel on throttle so it's not unusual to see smoke. It is greyish but I would have to check again with the engine hot and after a decent drive Edited November 3, 2020 by youngengineer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Yes I would imagine the smell of oil will be from oil hitting the outside of the hot exhaust manifold. You definately need to get the engine up to full operating temperature through a long drive, as others have said oil temperature really lags behind coolant temperature. It terms of smoke from the exhaust; you probably know this but it is worth mentioning... As a rule of thumb black smoke is rich fuel to air ratio, white smoke is unburnt diesel (also smells strongly of fuel and stings your eyes), grey/blue smoke is burning oil. Let us know when you have taken it for a nice long drive and also checked the state of breathing through the filler cap when on a warm tick over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 30 miles won’t burn off any oil spilled on the outside or left over from assembly. You do need to keep an eye on levels, though, as that will tell you if you’re burning it. I think the oil cooler is more important than the intercooler, and I’d recommend you fit one urgently. Mike said on his Brit Rest videos that while the 200 and 300 composite head baskets are the same, the multi layer steel gasket is suitable for the 300 only because of the repositioning and smaller size of the oilway for the head feed not matching the drilling positions in the 200 head. I don’t know if he’s right or not, but I hope he’s wrong or that it was an odd batch or supplier he had as that is what I have on my 200, supplied by the engineering shop when I collected the rebuilt head from them. Could be an expensive mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 You are not driving it hard enough. The exhaust manifold should get much much hotter than the boiling point of any oil. Trust me, I design refineries for a living. It is diesel. I could explain again, but I'm not sure if anyone is paying attention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Diesel mixed with soot does look and feel oily. The photo of the exhaust manifold in place but induction manifold removed shows quite the soot stain on the no.4 foot of the exhaust manifold. Diesel could get through the cylinders to the turbine housing on the first start up, where the fuel system is purging and the injection happening with too poor a pressure and pattern to ignite, so Red may be on the money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 What happens is the lighter components of the diesel evaporate or burn and you are left with the heavier components mixed in with particulates. The residue is a thick oil and you "think" it is sump oil. This is happening when you are not getting complete combustion. Due to being too cold, overfueling, retarded timing or a bad spray. Go and smell the exhaust when this is happening. It will smell like diesel. Burning sump oil smells very different. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngengineer Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Red90 said: What happens is the lighter components of the diesel evaporate or burn and you are left with the heavier components mixed in with particulates. The residue is a thick oil and you "think" it is sump oil. This is happening when you are not getting complete combustion. Due to being too cold, overfueling, retarded timing or a bad spray. Go and smell the exhaust when this is happening. It will smell like diesel. Burning sump oil smells very different. The way you have explained it does make sense. It could certainly be diesel mixed with soot. There is an additional issue which I did not mention which based on your explanation could be related. On my first test run, I have noticed that on WOT and WOT only, I get almost complete loss of power. I have only ever had this happen before when the gauze in the tank pickup was clogged with debris. It feels similar except it is more violent. Almost like the fuel solenoid is being closed. A steady foot however will see the revs and boost climb up normally. The fuel return to the tank has a very strong flow so I have ruled out a fuel supply issue to the pump. The injectors themselves I had rebuilt last year so should be ok. The FIP itself has been outside for several weeks uncovered and could have been contaminated. Edited November 3, 2020 by youngengineer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I wonder if you are seriously overfueling. What is the off boost smoke like? Have you verified the timing is correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngengineer Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Red90 said: I wonder if you are seriously overfueling. What is the off boost smoke like? Have you verified the timing is correct? The only mod I have made to the pump is turning the main fuel screw in 180 degrees and then reduce the idle. It does also have a boost pin and ring. Its been like this for a long time and I've never had issues at WOT When I first started after rebuild there was enormous plumes of grey smoke but they disappeared after a minute or two. On my first run, off boost it did smoke grey but its nothing outrageous. As soon as my Billet thrust release bearing arrives I will go back out and video. As for timing yes it does seem correct. I don't have a fly wheel locking pin but since the gearbox was out I was able to line up the flywheel timing mark with the hole on the bottom of the bellhousing. I used a 9.5mm drill bit for the pump. Edited November 3, 2020 by youngengineer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 The drill bit method is not foolproof. You need to check with a dial gauge. Boost pin + 180 degrees on main fuel is a LOT of fuel unless you are running a lot of boost. For stock boost, that is way, way too much fuel. When I ask off boost, I mean full throttle right from idle until the boost comes on. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngengineer Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Red90 said: The drill bit method is not foolproof. You need to check with a dial gauge. Boost pin + 180 degrees on main fuel is a LOT of fuel unless you are running a lot of boost. For stock boost, that is way, way too much fuel. When I ask off boost, I mean full throttle right from idle until the boost comes on. I'm running 1.5bar of boost currently. When I finish building the compound turbo setup it will be higher still. Yes I know what you mean by off-boost. I need to check again as I have not paid attention and would not like to give you false information. Edited November 3, 2020 by youngengineer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Please tell me you are running an EGT gauge and using that to set the adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngengineer Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Red90 said: Please tell me you are running an EGT gauge and using that to set the adjustments. Yes I do. It's currently not fitted. 15 minutes ago, Red90 said: Please tell me you are running an EGT gauge and using that to set the adjustments. Edited November 3, 2020 by youngengineer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 If the rings were stuck I would wonder what oil it had had. I think it may be just rings seating, though it shouldn't be leaking out of the Egr plate, but just needs a gasket. I'd get some miles on and not be gentle before tearing hair out. I'd be careful of the Haynes manual, not always in agreement with the official one which you can download. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Often wonder why you don’t see any of the aftermarket heads from the Far East for the 200tdi like you do with the 300? Is it radically different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngengineer Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 9 hours ago, Kurt said: Often wonder why you don’t see any of the aftermarket heads from the Far East for the 200tdi like you do with the 300? Is it radically different? The valves on the 300 are further apart. The injectors in different positions, the height of the head itself is taller on the 300 but otherwise I believe they are similar. A 300 head will fit a 200 but will need new injectors, injector plumbing etc. I've looked into it but decided it was not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 200 heads tend to be more resilient, so don’t need replacement as often. 300 heads are reputed to warp or crack more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngengineer Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Snagger said: 200 heads tend to be more resilient, so don’t need replacement as often. 300 heads are reputed to warp or crack more often. I thought it was the other way round! Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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