cackshifter Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 Reading this I was slightly alarmed so went and looked at my own vehicles, both 300tdi on Richards chassis. The 90 has about 20mm clearance (hard to measure exactly, as the timing chest ends just before the adjuster on the steering box starts, but using the British Standard Middle Finger which was a loose fit, I'd guess 20mm) The 110 is similar. If the timing chests is above the adjuster the clearance would be a lot less. Happy to take any more measurements or pics you might need, just ask. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 27, 2022 Author Share Posted June 27, 2022 22 hours ago, steve b said: A couple of dimensions from the 300Tdi 110 sw I'm part way through building onto a GKN chassis A straight edge across the underside of the main rails under the hand brake drum , gap is about 2 - 3 mm A level on the back of fifth gear housing at the highest point to the top of the seat box forward mounting bracket (floor level give or take a couple of mill) 190mm Front to back position , rear of front cross member to front face of crank pulley/damper 115mm Minimum clearance between PAS box and cam belt chest 20mm Edit to add , transfer box mounts are welded to the chassis Steve I think the measurement that is most interesting is under the handbrake drum 2-3mm. Mine is 16-17mm and thus what I suspect the problem is. Is it rubber mounts that are too deep or the mounts themselves too high? Front to back position spot on. Clearance to PAS box much less. 9 minutes ago, cackshifter said: Reading this I was slightly alarmed so went and looked at my own vehicles, both 300tdi on Richards chassis. The 90 has about 20mm clearance (hard to measure exactly, as the timing chest ends just before the adjuster on the steering box starts, but using the British Standard Middle Finger which was a loose fit, I'd guess 20mm) The 110 is similar. If the timing chests is above the adjuster the clearance would be a lot less. Happy to take any more measurements or pics you might need, just ask. I would be very grateful if you could check the measure as per steve for me 'A straight edge across the underside of the main rails under the hand brake drum'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 27, 2022 Author Share Posted June 27, 2022 I have also pinged an email to Richards setting out the problems I have to see if they have encountered before and have any measurements they can share to help me. I think a drop in the gearbox height will make a big difference to the front of the engine height so may try playing with that tonight by taking out the gearbox mounts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 With a straight edge under my drum the drum is 10-15mm below the rails. That's an XD chassis with the original landrover gearbox crossmemember. pulley to front member 110mm approx 20mm over steering box 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 27, 2022 Author Share Posted June 27, 2022 1 hour ago, muddy said: With a straight edge under my drum the drum is 10-15mm below the rails. That's an XD chassis with the original landrover gearbox crossmemember. pulley to front member 110mm approx 20mm over steering box Whilst that would suggest a huge variance to mine above the rails I am starting to wonder if all the designs curve up at the same place/have the same depth rails etc as a lot of that could be slightly different with no impact as long as the other geometry of holes etc is correct This explains exactly why is it so difficult to work out where things are going wrong though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 Quite possibly! I can't remember seeing a landrover chassis where the handbrake drum is above the rails as it were although you'd hope a GKN chassis would be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 27, 2022 Author Share Posted June 27, 2022 I am going to start driving round with a straight bar and a tape measure! Might actually go measure a mates down the road tonight as I know that is on the original genuine chassis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 So.... sorry I was a while getting back to you. The brake drum is 9mm below the chassis rail. I also took the liberty of putting a spirit level on the oil filler cap, and measuring from the bottom of that down to the top of the chassis rail on the offside (it is still straight at that point. That is pretty much dead in line with the oil pressure switch. That measured 466mm, so should let you see if the height of the engine is anywhere near right at the front. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 I've got an original factory 90 300 in for fitting a folding step on passenger side so will get a measurement off that tomorrow Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 How does the engine sit front-to-back angle wise? I seem to remember it should be about 5Deg up to the front. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 27, 2022 Author Share Posted June 27, 2022 Thanks all. Will have a look at lunch tomorrow, first day at work after a week off so can't face the Land Rover again tonight. It really feels like the box being high could be the answer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 28, 2022 Author Share Posted June 28, 2022 I have just come off the phone to Richards and this is what they have said: Richards do not have the laser cutting facilities to cut the profiles for the 110 and 109 chassis as they are too long (they do the SWB) and they outsource this. Normally the outsourced company laser cut but their machine broke at some point and they had a batch which they water cut. This lead to a difference in the cut edge which resulted in a deeper chassis rail when welded up, this then had a knock on effect to the height of the gearbox crossmember when they used their jig and to a lesser extent the height of the engine mounts. This only appears to have affected 300tdi 110's and nothing else. They have made adjusted crossmembers for the gearbox and are going to send me one out today and also can make some packers for the engine mounts which they need to make/galvanise and will send out next week. Whilst I am pleased that I am not going mad this has cost me hours if not days of wasted time scratching my head as you convince yourself it must be you, especially as I had encountered so many bodges on my build from when it was converted from a 200 to a 300 prior to my ownership. Feel pretty disappointed they did not reach out to customers with suspected problem chassis as if I had known there was a chance it was wrong I would have stopped fiddling with things trying to get things right weeks ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 I can't work out how that would make a difference. If you send a file for laser cutting or water jet or even plasma, they should be well within a tolerance for assembling! Did they say how much it's out by? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 28, 2022 Author Share Posted June 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, landroversforever said: I can't work out how that would make a difference. If you send a file for laser cutting or water jet or even plasma, they should be well within a tolerance for assembling! Did they say how much it's out by? New crossmember drops the gearbox by 10mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, L19MUD said: New crossmember drops the gearbox by 10mm There's got to be another cock up somewhere at their end if it needs that much. Even accounting for a different cut width and/or kerf I can't see how on earth it would stack up to that much. Even if they fed the positional data for the laser straight into the waterjet I'm sure it would come out less than 10mm off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 28, 2022 Author Share Posted June 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, landroversforever said: There's got to be another cock up somewhere at their end if it needs that much. Even accounting for a different cut width and/or kerf I can't see how on earth it would stack up to that much. Even if they fed the positional data for the laser straight into the waterjet I'm sure it would come out less than 10mm off! I know little about any of that but my thoughts too. He mentioned something about the way it welded up differently Torn between being pleased I have the answer and it was not me be being thick (always the first assumption!) and really annoyed I have wasted so much time when someone knew I had a potential problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 It's a bit of a poor show that they didn't get in contact as soon as they knew. Unless they didn't know yet which batches it actually affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 28, 2022 Author Share Posted June 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, landroversforever said: It's a bit of a poor show that they didn't get in contact as soon as they knew. Unless they didn't know yet which batches it actually affected. They said they did not know which batches it affected.....I feel a general warning via email to people who bought one around that time would have been the right thing to do. Guess they did not want the bad publicity that comes with that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 This is hardly good publicity though . As for a different cut process causing different dimensions , I just find that to be utter flannel . There is also an implication that outsourced cut parts are not QC checked at delivery and maybe worse no QC at the complete welded stage . Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 They should have just emailed everyone that has a 300TDI chassis and been done with it, but suspect the costs were way too high for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 28, 2022 Author Share Posted June 28, 2022 29 minutes ago, steve b said: This is hardly good publicity though . Agreed - hence why I felt it fair to put it out there as to exactly the reason for the problem so that people can make their own judgement 7 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: They should have just emailed everyone that has a 300TDI chassis and been done with it, but suspect the costs were way too high for them. This is what I would have done. Makes you wonder how many people have fabbed their own solutions to get round it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSD Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 On 6/26/2022 at 12:22 PM, L19MUD said: OK so to update what I did to clear the power steering box. I just added some 10mm plate under the RH mount and managed to get enough clearance. However the problem has reared its head again. My viscos fan won't fit by about 25mm, that is a huge amount. This might be a daft question, but you are using a Defender fan shroud, not a Discovery one? The position of the fan in each is different, but I didn't see any mention in which direction it 'won't fit'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 28, 2022 Author Share Posted June 28, 2022 14 minutes ago, TSD said: This might be a daft question, but you are using a Defender fan shroud, not a Discovery one? The position of the fan in each is different, but I didn't see any mention in which direction it 'won't fit'. A good question. Now I believe it is a Defender one as it fitted before, albeit the engine was further back. It is correct side to side to fit the opening but the water pump spindle to thread it on is too low currently which stacks up to what I now know about my engine and gearbox positioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSD Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 That sounds how I picture a disco shroud would be. I can't remember the exact details, but I played with both shrouds when I made the engine mounts for my Ibex build. I think the fan sits higher in the disco shroud. Check some online pics, but from (my entirely unreliable) memory the defender shroud has the fan central (vertically), the disco one is offet upwards, and has a removeable section, where the defender one is all one piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted June 28, 2022 Author Share Posted June 28, 2022 28 minutes ago, TSD said: That sounds how I picture a disco shroud would be. I can't remember the exact details, but I played with both shrouds when I made the engine mounts for my Ibex build. I think the fan sits higher in the disco shroud. Check some online pics, but from (my entirely unreliable) memory the defender shroud has the fan central (vertically), the disco one is offet upwards, and has a removeable section, where the defender one is all one piece. The one I have is certainly all a single piece and from memory looks like the pictures I can find online. The part number appears to be ESR2308 so will see if I can find a number on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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