henk Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 So last sunday I could finally test the Milemarker a first time. I had put on the rope before under tension winching myself towards a tree but sunday we tried to pull a tractor away. It started well but when tension became higher, the rope slipped on the drum, even with the first row completely full and it slipped out of the eye I made on the end. The drum is perfectly smooth so not enough friction there I assume. S what to do? Sand the drum? Weld a decent holder on? Or … ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 I think I would be concentrating on making sure the eye is suitably strong enough and well attached ie; cannot come off or pull through, as for the drum, I wouldn't be roughing it up if your using synthetic winch rope, you could try coating drum in spray adhesive to improve the friction regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 Is the drum painted ? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henk Posted June 15, 2022 Author Share Posted June 15, 2022 21 minutes ago, steve b said: Is the drum painted ? Steve Yes, nice black coated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 Have you got any steel cable available? I've heard of others with similar problems running a few pulls with steel rope to mark the drum a bit. The fixing at the drum end shouldn't be under much stress at all, so I'd think that there's not enough friction on the drum for the capstan effect to work. It should only require 3-4 turns on the drum for it to grip. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 splice the rope into an eye, and use the bolt that you have for the original eye. The bolt with a penny washer secures it. Have done this for years on my EP9. Increasing the friction is a waste of time, once your cable is covered in slippery mud. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henk Posted June 15, 2022 Author Share Posted June 15, 2022 The bolt to fix the line is maybe M5 size so for sure not designed to take any load. I was thinking to weld something on like on the Gigglepin drums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 That certainly works. You are not actually meant to have full load onto the splice point. I have the M5 (or M6) as well, if you use a 12.9 caphead, it should be ok You are meant to have 3 wraps around the drum minimum and put a wrap around this so you cannot unspool further than this. Not that anyone does that though. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 Have a look for ‘plasma lock’ it’s designed to keep the first 3 or so wraps on the drum. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenden Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 10 hours ago, Daan said: "You are meant to have 3 wraps around the drum minimum and put a wrap around this" Hi Daan, What do you mean by wrap around this? Having tried to reattach the cable in the middle if the night when the Co driver aught to be in bed a couple of times have made me think of solutions to fix the inner 4 turns to the drum. I haven't found a good one yet, so I was a bit qurious. /mads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 10 hours ago, landroversforever said: Have a look for ‘plasma lock’ it’s designed to keep the first 3 or so wraps on the drum. https://www.roadrunneroffroad.com.au/Red-Winches-Plasma-Lock-ROPE-RETENTION-Device 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henk Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 ordered the plasma lock yesterday already, will give feedback if it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 17 minutes ago, henk said: ordered the plasma lock yesterday already, will give feedback if it works Personally I can't get on with them, but I hear great things about them from folk in the business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPendrey Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 10 hours ago, landroversforever said: Have a look for ‘plasma lock’ it’s designed to keep the first 3 or so wraps on the drum. Yes, do this! Super-simple device, but very effective. Just make sure it goes onto the rope before you put an eye on the end (if it is big). It is intended to stop the rope ever reaching the final turn, but I suspect it would also tighten the rope down onto the drum as it effectively forces the rope to pull against itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenden Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Daan said: https://www.roadrunneroffroad.com.au/Red-Winches-Plasma-Lock-ROPE-RETENTION-Device Thanks! I will see how it reacts with a steel wirerope as the idea is good. /mads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Pretty sure we used to use duck tape around the first few wraps and that held fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 4 hours ago, toenden said: Thanks! I will see how it reacts with a steel wirerope as the idea is good. /mads The plasma lock is only for use with synthetic line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenden Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 16 hours ago, landroversforever said: The plasma lock is only for use with synthetic line. Hm.. I see. The lock actually got me thinking, that maybe all I needed was a circle of some duable material like seat belt and then feed round 3-4 through this. That way tension may get lost but it wont roll to far/jump out of the anchorpoint in the drum (and running an old koenig, you do NOT want to put the wire back into that clamp unless the music is calming, the sun is high, but not directly at you, the view is nice and your stomach is full... exactly like in the heat of an event, right? 😬) I will give it a try at some point (with my own idea and let the plasma lock be fore the plasma guys 🙂) /mads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 2 hours ago, toenden said: Hm.. I see. The lock actually got me thinking, that maybe all I needed was a circle of some duable material like seat belt and then feed round 3-4 through this. That way tension may get lost but it wont roll to far/jump out of the anchorpoint in the drum (and running an old koenig, you do NOT want to put the wire back into that clamp unless the music is calming, the sun is high, but not directly at you, the view is nice and your stomach is full... exactly like in the heat of an event, right? 😬) I will give it a try at some point (with my own idea and let the plasma lock be fore the plasma guys 🙂) /mads Most of the drums I've seen for wire rope have a hole and a grub screw for securing the end, but again they're not supposed to be taking any load other than winding the first few layers on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenden Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 43 minutes ago, landroversforever said: Most of the drums I've seen for wire rope have a hole and a grub screw for securing the end, but again they're not supposed to be taking any load other than winding the first few layers on. Ohh, this one has a hole allright... -in the side of the drum and a clamp with two bolts securing it. You try jigling a 10mm wire through the hole, get it to turn 90 degrees and clamp it trying to get the two bolts (that can not be too long as they protrude into the drum) to find their thread 🤣 Sometimes 5 min. Sometimes a couple of hours... 😭 The wire/the bolts has tendency to work loose/need retightning/seating after the first couple of pulls but I seem to forget from time to time... I'll take a picture when I get home. But long story short, a solution to undoing the wire (driver error or not) would be great. 🙂 /mads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Ahh I see. What about adding a looped bit to the drum like the gigglepin drums, and then get an end crimped on the cable to stop it coming through? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 I have not had the wire pulling out of the clamp yet on my Koenig. The problem with winches that you always have is that you want as much cable on the drum as possible to reach trees, but it bunches. So leaving 8 wraps on the drum as the plasma lock suggests is the last thing you want. So the Gigglepin loop welded to the drum is not a bad idea. Only trouble is that trying to undo the knot if you want to replace the cable is almost impossible after you hang 2 tons on it. I didn't fancy welding to the EP9 drum, as it is cast and I am not sure what is going on inside the drum near the ends. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenden Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 5 hours ago, Daan said: I have not had the wire pulling out of the clamp yet on my Koenig. The problem with winches that you always have is that you want as much cable on the drum as possible to reach trees, but it bunches. So leaving 8 wraps on the drum as the plasma lock suggests is the last thing you want. So the Gigglepin loop welded to the drum is not a bad idea. Only trouble is that trying to undo the knot if you want to replace the cable is almost impossible after you hang 2 tons on it. I didn't fancy welding to the EP9 drum, as it is cast and I am not sure what is going on inside the drum near the ends. Daan Is the space less on a "high mount" koenig? I some times think that it is mud/rock/whatever that works the bolts loose. Mind you their threads could be better... The gigglepin loop is tha best/easieat idea that will guarantee to work, i will copy that. /mads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 There shouldn’t be a reason for the clamp to come loose. Are you winding it out too far so it’s under load? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenden Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, landroversforever said: There shouldn’t be a reason for the clamp to come loose. Are you winding it out too far so it’s under load? Maybe 🙂 The problem seems to be that the squezing of the wire sometimes settle down and release that tiny amount that lets the bolts undo. It is a tight fit between the housing and the drum and as I said the threads for the bolts is worn. It normally happens after we have changed the wire. When settled down It only happens when somebody rolls It to far out... As Daan points to, I only run 35m on the drum to prevent bundling but that does mean that all of It is used from time to time and in the heat of the moment you do have to watch out... 🙂 In the picture you can see the clamp and one of the bolts. You can also se where they have knocked the housing by touching ever so slightly. /mads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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