Late Td5/Early Tdci 110 Station Wagon

[monkie]

I'm getting ahead of myself here, discussing tuning a Defender I don't have! 

[muddy]

On 8/1/2022 at 10:47 PM, landroversforever said:

Just had a quick google... 

0.77:1 R380 5th
0.74:1 MT82 6th

TD5 1.4 lt230 Pooma 1.2 lt230 don't forget.

 

An XS spec puma with all the toys is pretty much as good as it gets and if you want a defender that really is the one to have. Don't forget you really need to spend around £1000 on security and make sure its well insured before you make too many other mods. It might also be worth taking a pragmatic approach to what repairs you are prepared and or capable to do if any, in order to help pinpoint the best candidate. For example its a much easier, quicker and cheaper job to replace a back axle than a rear seatbox.

[monkie]

6 hours ago, muddy said:

TD5 1.4 lt230 Pooma 1.2 lt230 don't forget.

 

An XS spec puma with all the toys is pretty much as good as it gets and if you want a defender that really is the one to have. Don't forget you really need to spend around £1000 on security and make sure its well insured before you make too many other mods. It might also be worth taking a pragmatic approach to what repairs you are prepared and or capable to do if any, in order to help pinpoint the best candidate. For example its a much easier, quicker and cheaper job to replace a back axle than a rear seatbox.

Thank you, useful information, I was thinking about the transfer box ratio difference from td5 to puma. The XS 2.4 tdci I was going to look at sold. 

I have indeed ring fenced just over £1k for layers of security as the first thing I'll do when I get it. 

I'm budgeting around £24k to get a nice one. I'm not that bothered about the age, just want a nice 110 to keep. 

Someone told me that the rear sliding windows on the XS spec have some rubber round them to reduce the annoying rattle. Is that so, or just some wibble? 

Also when did they change from 4 folding seats in the rear to 2? 

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, monkie said:

Also when did they change from 4 folding seats in the rear to 2? 

I’m pretty sure it was inline with the swap to Ford power. 

[landroversforever]

8 hours ago, muddy said:

TD5 1.4 lt230 Pooma 1.2 lt230 don't forget.

Very true, I’d neglected to mention that.

Id still suggest driving both and seeing which you prefer. I much prefer the drive of a td5 to the later pumas. 

[monkie]

4 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

I’m pretty sure it was inline with the swap to Ford power. 

I've seen some 2008/09 with 4 seats then some 2012+ with 2. I'm guessing it's around 2010, but don't know that for sure. 

[landroversforever]

18 minutes ago, monkie said:

I've seen some 2008/09 with 4 seats then some 2012+ with 2. I'm guessing it's around 2010, but don't know that for sure. 

I reckon they’ll have been retrofitted. Particularly if the car didn’t originally have the 3rd row as to fit the puma 3rd row seats, the wheel boxes are notched. 

[monkie]

59 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

I reckon they’ll have been retrofitted. Particularly if the car didn’t originally have the 3rd row as to fit the puma 3rd row seats, the wheel boxes are notched. 

Think you might be right... These are just taken off Auto trader. First is an 06 (Td5), next is an 08 (2.4 puma)... 

 

[landroversforever]

And on that note, if you find the right Puma for you (if that’s what you settle on) you can buy the wheelbox sections to make the puma seats fit. 

[monkie]

58 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

And on that note, if you find the right Puma for you (if that’s what you settle on) you can buy the wheelbox sections to make the puma seats fit. 

Sorry, maybe it's the heat. I'm not following what you mean? Sounds interesting though as I think my search has now settled on a Puma. 

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, monkie said:

Sorry, maybe it's the heat. I'm not following what you mean? Sounds interesting though as I think my search has now settled on a Puma. 

I can’t see a suitable picture at the moment, but if you look at the wheel boxes in the back of your current 110 they’ll have a square edge. The puma ones with rear seats have an extra notch in the corner for the seat mechanism to attach to. 

[landroversforever]

Found one now  

that’s just one example of an aftermarket section for creating the shape. 

[monkie]

Ah to put the 2 puma rear seats in the back of a pre-puma? 

[western]

Correct 

[Happyoldgit]

I haven't read the entire thread but speaking as someone who bought both 2.4 & 2.2 Puma 110 XS Station Wagons and Utility Station Wagons new I would go for the 2.2 as I found them to be a little smoother, quieter and a bit more lively than the 2.4's. The heating systems are streets ahead of previous models [owned most of, if not all of them too] and the steel doors and bonnet help with noise levels and water sealing. With the last of the old Defenders being seven years old now you need to avoid anything that has been near salt water or used a lot on salted roads without regular cleaning. You might also want to consider the vehicle tax rates for the vehicles concerned too.

Puma Station Wagon rear seats are a bolt in affair and relatively heavy to shift and bulky to store. If used in conjunction with the standard JLR luggage cargo barrier they put rear passengers faces uncomfortably close to the wire mesh. Not a good place to be in the event of a collision.

Some early Puma's were waxoyled at JLR or dealers expense as some of us kicked up a stick when we found how poor the rustproofing was. They became wise to this after a while and started to declare that the components didn't need a wax coating as finishes were corrosion resistant as customers watched bumpers, side steps, rear crossmembers and other items peel and corrode.

For the prices being asked you really have to be very choosy. For what you are buying and the standard of construction most really are not worth the money.

[monkie]

5 minutes ago, Happyoldgit said:

I haven't read the entire thread but speaking as someone who bought both 2.4 & 2.2 Puma 110 XS Station Wagons and Utility Station Wagons new I would go for the 2.2 as I found them to be a little smoother, quieter and a bit more lively than the 2.4's. The heating systems are streets ahead of previous models [owned most of, if not all of them too] and the steel doors and bonnet help with noise levels and water sealing. With the last of the old Defenders being seven years old now you need to avoid anything that has been near salt water or used a lot on salted roads without regular cleaning. You might also want to consider the vehicle tax rates for the vehicles concerned too.

Puma Station Wagon rear seats are a bolt in affair and relatively heavy to shift and bulky to store. If used in conjunction with the standard JLR luggage cargo barrier they put rear passengers faces uncomfortably close to the wire mesh. Not a good place to be in the event of a collision.

Some early Puma's were waxoyled at JLR or dealers expense as some of us kicked up a stick when we found how poor the rustproofing was. They became wise to this after a while and started to declare that the components didn't need a wax coating as finishes were corrosion resistant as customers watched bumpers, side steps, rear crossmembers and other items peel and corrode.

For the prices being asked you really have to be very choosy. For what you are buying and the standard of construction most really are not worth the money.

Thank you, that is helpful information. I had read your thread about comparing the 2.4 and 2.2 with interest. 

I am in no rush, I am not going to part with my money until I see one that really excites me. One that thing that puts me off quicker than anything is horrible aftermarket fronts and checker plate. 

[landroversforever]

Puma doors are an added bonus. Worth mentioning that they made it onto cars as early as 05 plates. Look out for the rounded door tops rather than the angular old ones.

[monkie]

Goodness me, the first thing I noticed was how nice it is to see doors that shut properly! Only ruined by those darn rattly rear sliding windows.

[reb78]

Is it correct that 2.2= DPF and 2.4 does not? Worth considering if someone can confirm. I daresay the presence of one lowers VED but the price of replacement is ridiculous. 

[monkie]

16 minutes ago, reb78 said:

Is it correct that 2.2= DPF and 2.4 does not? Worth considering if someone can confirm. I daresay the presence of one lowers VED but the price of replacement is ridiculous. 

Yes, I think you are correct in terms of one of the changes to the 2.2. Although I've read that it doesn't seem to be an issue like it can be on other diesel cars. 

[Happyoldgit]

Hmmmm, working entirely from memory I thought both 2.4 & 2.2 had DPF's but it would be easy to check.

As has been said the steel doors were introduced in the late stages of TD5 production, I recall at least one of the ones I had came with them. Don't discount TD5's, nice and smooth but I preferred the longer legs of the Puma's, others will disagree of course.

[steve b]

The very last TD5 110 XS has electric windows / AC / central locking and as HOG says steel doors all round . The one I look after has good seats and the heater/blower seems pretty good . 

I've only ridden as a front passenger once in a Tdci but it felt cramped for seating but was quick .

Steve 

[monkie]

I'm quite confident that DPFs became a requirement at some point in 2011. Here are the diagrams for the 2.4 and then the 2.2 exhaust systems respectively. I think only the 2.2 puma has a DPF but happy to be corrected if I have misunderstood. 

 

[Retroanaconda]

Yes DPFs we’re introduced in 2012 with the 2.2 models. Some export markets didn’t have them fitted though, so there are 2.2s out there without one. Not likely to find one in this country though, and as above they don’t cause a lot of issues it seems.

The later all-steel side doors are worlds apart from the earlier type and well worth it. The rear tail door had a similar improvement but that happened back in 2002 so most Td5s had that already. 

[Happyoldgit]

Happy to stand corrected re the 2.4 / 2.2 DPF. I would add that all external powder coated items were prone to having the finish peel revealing unprotected steel underneath that rapidly turned a natty shade of rust. JLR replaced things like side steps and mudflap brackets etc under warranty as a matter of course but as the replacement parts were equally badly finished it was an endless cycle. Windscreen frames peel and corrode as do bonnet and door hinges. The quality and finish of some components on what were +30k vehicles [at the time] were beyond the pale.