Puma doors - CDL (central door locking)

[Peaklander]

Hi, I have a quick question for anyone with CDL on a later Defender as I might be fitting a pair of Puma doors (2012) to my 110. I know how to add the relay to my 10AS and I can route the output from it to the front doors.

According to the electrical circuit diagram, each unlock motor has a two wire connection back to the ECU (reversing polarity to engage / disengage), except the driver's door which has these two but also another pair, one being ground and the other also from the ECU.

There's a key barrel in the driver's door handle. I will need to change this anyway, as the keys have stayed with the ignition switch and the dash / bulkhead etc.

Can anyone help with explaining the operation when using the key in the driver's door? Does it unlock and if so how, what is it actually doing? What is the extra cable for that connects to the ECU? I will no doubt end-up removing the door card but it would be good to know now, as I can plan my circuit.

I attach a screen shot from Will's fantastic new resource on lrworkshop here.

 

[L19MUD]

If you use the key in the drivers lock (instead of pressing the remote) it will unlock the other doors. The passenger front does not do this. The extra wire is a message wire to the ECU to allow it to do this

[Peaklander]

What is the action in the door, that takes place when the key is turned? The extra wire terminates on the motor, rather than somewhere else like the lock barrel (according to the diagram). I presume that the 'signal' is that extra wire being taken to 0 volts (the 2nd extra wire) by something moving.

Edit: the driver's door actuator must have a position switch on it and the key in the barrel must operate it mechanically. That's what I'm reasoning now that you have explained the operation @L19MUD . Thanks

Edited November 8, 2022 by Peaklander

[L19MUD]

4 minutes ago, Peaklander said:

What is the action in the door, that takes place when the key is turned? The extra wire terminates on the motor, rather than somewhere else like the lock barrel (according to the diagram). I presume that the 'signal' is that extra wire being taken to 0 volts (the 2nd extra wire) by something moving.

Edit: the driver's door actuator must have a position switch on it and the key in the barrel must operate it mechanically. That's what I'm reasoning now that you have explained the operation @L19MUD . Thanks

I think you must be right. Additionally (and I have not checked this with a Puma) operating the lock button inside performs the same action which would tie up to your theory as using either the key or the button inside has the same effect on the actuator as they are mechanically linked

[Peaklander]

Great. I now need to think how I can provide the same action across at the passenger side, when it's the 10AS that will normally provide just a closed contact off the remote fob press. Maybe it's as simple as putting that driver's door position 'contact' in parallel with that in the 10AS relay. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Peaklander

[Peaklander]

Whilst I'm thinking about that, which might be more complicated than I initially thought, I need to think about the 10AS. I already have remote fobs which arm and disarm the alarm. As I have this functionality, I am 99% sure that the remote lock function is already enabled as a parameter setting inside the 10AS. However I do need to fit the relay and varistor, which are readily available and fit in the obvious spot, labelled RL2 on the pcb. Then I need to pickup the relay output at pins 2 & 3 on the green connector.

 

However even though I don't think I'll need the 10AS configuring for CDL, I would like to alter the alarm sounder to pulse rather than continuous. This leads me to a question - does a Nanocom programme all 10AS units or are they 'coded' to the vehicle type? I think that a Nanocom is vehicle specific because I approached an advert on FB Marketplace and the chap said he only does Discos.

I can send the 10AS away for a guy to fit the relay and check it works and I guess he could do the click to change the alarm config too. So that's my fall-back.

[landroversforever]

4 hours ago, Peaklander said:

Whilst I'm thinking about that, which might be more complicated than I initially thought, I need to think about the 10AS. I already have remote fobs which arm and disarm the alarm. As I have this functionality, I am 99% sure that the remote lock function is already enabled as a parameter setting inside the 10AS. However I do need to fit the relay and varistor, which are readily available and fit in the obvious spot, labelled RL2 on the pcb. Then I need to pickup the relay output at pins 2 & 3 on the green connector.

 

However even though I don't think I'll need the 10AS configuring for CDL, I would like to alter the alarm sounder to pulse rather than continuous. This leads me to a question - does a Nanocom programme all 10AS units or are they 'coded' to the vehicle type? I think that a Nanocom is vehicle specific because I approached an advert on FB Marketplace and the chap said he only does Discos.

I can send the 10AS away for a guy to fit the relay and check it works and I guess he could do the click to change the alarm config too. So that's my fall-back.

They’re specific in certain ways. For example whilst mine is vehicle specific to the TD5 disco, it will also do the td5 side in anything. 

[Peaklander]

Hmmm It's OBD2 I think but maybe that doesn't mean it will 'talk' to all 10AS.

[landroversforever]

1 minute ago, Peaklander said:

Hmmm It's OBD2 I think but maybe that doesn't mean it will 'talk' to all 10AS.

They’re not fully obd compliant at least for the td5 defenders and d2. Even the later stuff is still model specific on the nanocoms. With all of that you can buy the add-ons for. Vehicles etc. 

[Peaklander]

9 hours ago, Peaklander said:

I attach a screen shot from Will's fantastic new resource on lrworkshop here

I ought to say that these diagrams are now interactive and hovering over a connector label and then clicking will link over to the connector library (and vv). It makes cross-referencing so much quicker and easier. Thanks to LR Workshop.

[Peaklander]

I have a plan. Tried to talk with @paul mc on here but eventually found his eBay shop (I'd forgotten about it). Now I have a source for the A post connectors for the windows and CDL. Paul sells a kit https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161496816250 which has the two power window connectors and the driver and passenger door locking connectors. These fit on a body loom that I will make. I just need to see a real-life Puma in order to check where they sit but it must be through a hole in the post.

I can't find anyone locally who can program the 10AS and so I'm going to send it to another Paul at https://www.technozen-electronics.co.uk. He seems to have a great reputation and has confirmed that he can fit the CDL relay, check that the function is enabled and also alter the alarm sounder to be a pulse output rather than continuous. I would have fitted the relay myself but I can't do the configuration changes so that decision was made for me.

Paul also confirmed that the additional contact picked up at the driver's door key turn, does indeed pull a core to 0V and this will be connected to the 10AS pin7. He tells me that the function is always in the 10AS firmware, namely when pin 7 changes state the other doors are commanded to unlock / lock.

So now I need to plan the loom and I will probably run cores to the B post for the 2nd row doors and rear door, just in case I ever buy the CDL actuators for those. I have the new style doors there already.

Also I need a new layout at a new Mud console (the old one is full). I need to incorporate the two window switches in convenient positions, maybe an rpm counter if I can find a reasonably priced one and a better radio / screen to perhaps airplay google maps etc.

 

[oneandtwo]

The door wiring exits the bulkhead through a rectangular hole approx 2” below the door light switch. YQQ000070 cable gaiter houses the wiring loom and fits to the door and into the rectangular hole

[Peaklander]

I used that gaiter thing for my heated mirrors on the existing doors. I hope I put it in the ‘Puma’ position. Hopefully there’s enough space for these extra cores.

[Peaklander]

@oneandtwo, I presume that the two connectors for CDL and windows, once connected-up to the door plugs, push back into the post and hang in there. I will get a chance to look at a  Puma tomorrow I think.

[Peaklander]

Just turning my attention to the keys and lock barrels. If I want, I can buy (p/n LR052050) a new steering lock / ignition key barrel etc, together with two keys and three lock barrels plus new shear bolts although not a clamp. This is the later type for longer and wider barrels (such as on my 'new' Puma door). One barrel will fit the driver's door, another the rear door, leaving the third available.

In the technical archive, there is a write-up showing how to change the earlier type of fuel filler key barrel but I don't know if this works for the later ones. I can continue with my existing 300TDi cap which has an extra key anyway but it might tidy things up to use the ignition key at the filler, as well as driver and rear doors if necessary.

Has anyone got experience of fitting a replacement barrel to the later fuel caps, or does every Puma driver have a separate key?

[Retroanaconda]

4 hours ago, Peaklander said:

@oneandtwo, I presume that the two connectors for CDL and windows, once connected-up to the door plugs, push back into the post and hang in there. I will get a chance to look at a  Puma tomorrow I think.

They do yes 

[Retroanaconda]

1 hour ago, Peaklander said:

Just turning my attention to the keys and lock barrels. If I want, I can buy (p/n LR052050) a new steering lock / ignition key barrel etc, together with two keys and three lock barrels plus new shear bolts although not a clamp. This is the later type for longer and wider barrels (such as on my 'new' Puma door). One barrel will fit the driver's door, another the rear door, leaving the third available.

In the technical archive, there is a write-up showing how to change the earlier type of fuel filler key barrel but I don't know if this works for the later ones. I can continue with my existing 300TDi cap which has an extra key anyway but it might tidy things up to use the ignition key at the filler, as well as driver and rear doors if necessary.

Has anyone got experience of fitting a replacement barrel to the later fuel caps, or does every Puma driver have a separate key?

Every one I’ve seen/driven has a separate key. 

[Peaklander]

@Retroanaconda thanks, two definitive answers. I'll reserve the spare barrel for the passenger front door and see how we get on using the fobs to lock/unlock. I must admit that I don't always set the alarm but with CDL I will be doing of course.

[Peaklander]

One question for the wiring harness people 😀. I want to use some header joints to make some common cable connections within the harness - just like the existing which all seem to be blue, not that the colour matters!

For example I want to make a six way cable joint, where one core splits five ways. I have searched all over but am obviously using the incorrect search terms.

[Retroanaconda]

PaulMc on this forum is the man you need, as per this thread:

https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/106429-wiring-header-joints/

 

[Peaklander]

Thanks for the thread I hadn’t seen that. Paul hasn’t yet responded to my messages about various things, (since the beginning of Nov.)

Edit: I appear to have written a post in that thread! Embarrassed cough  

[Peaklander]

Calling @PaulMc, please look at your inbox. Thanks😊

[Badger110]

Something in the back my mind is telling me you can’t get a matched door lock/ignition set for pre puma and pumas.

 

I did the opposite to what you are doing, put older doors on a puma and I couldn’t get matching door locks to the ignition as they’re an older design on the door.

With a modern key set/lock than your ignition barrel, can you fit the newer style ignition or is there a kit which will work?

 

[Peaklander]

I have already removed the ignition/steering lock and will replace with a Puma kit that’s on the way to me. The kit also has two keys and three further barrels. I am assuming that this will fit the column. 😳

I will change the barrel on the Puma driver’s door.

The 2nd row doors will stay manual for now but I will run the loom to them and fit the connector at the B post for locking, just in case I ever buy the actuators.

I have bought a used locking kit for the rear door, which has the lock with bigger barrel and operating rod coming out of it. Also there’s a longer operating rod, a pivot and the actuator on a bracket. I have removed the old barrel ready for one of the new ones.

All the connectors are coming from @PaulMc

[Peaklander]

I didn’t say but as far as I know, the ignition barrel can’t be replaced in the steering lock assembly. The Puma  barrels  are longer and a bigger diameter as you know: