A day trip to Alive Tuning Louth

[Maverik]

So a good friend just bought a low mileage (20k) 2.2 Def 90 which is pretty much standard  apart from a few upgraded fittings and fixtures. 

He wants to have a good usable not in your face 90, so he booked the truck into Alive tuning down in Louth, when I heard this I dually invited myself along for the ride.

 

We where met at the door by one of the engineers, went through some legal bumf and then offered an additional dyno run for a before and after, this wasn't required as it was a simple Stage 1 flash remap that was proposed.

Luckily I was there to persuade said owner or we'd have missed out on some geek fun, after a brief vehicle health check, they got the truck strapped onto the rolling road.

I think it was a slightly quieter day but they where super chilled out and where happy to answer all my ridiculously technical questions.

So while she was getting the pre tune run, we got a poke about one of there test trucks.

This thing is tuned to 306bhp with verious upgrades as well as a full transmission fettle too. We got a chance to ride passanger in a test drive of this thing and all I could think was how is this engine not spontaneously disassembling itself... a testimony in itself of the quite honestly phenomenal robustness of a core td5 engine. Pretty cool.

Back to the Puma, on paper they're meant to be 122bhp with ~300nm of torque.

This one ran out at 131bhp at 310nm apparently this isn't unusual, like the body build tolerance, the engine output is quite broad and this one being one of the far right end of the scale - so a pretty good starting point.

They then send the output to the boss who checks it over then sends the engineer the new remap flash file which they then flash to the ecu.

Apparently they don't get very many stock trucks in to play with so they where pretty excited to do some base value comparisons, so she went on again to qualify what the flashing achived.

An impressive increase to 160.9bhp and a whopping 400.6nm

Test drive completed by the engineer to make sure it felt right then after answering another 100 questions from me we had a rather swifter drive home with my mate mulling over the shopping list of the additional suspension parts he's going to upgrade to compliment the better engine performance.

I'm not affiliated or sponsored by Alive, but after a visit to their garage I am super impressed with there professionalism as well as there outstanding knowledge on tuning, they where even interested in having a look at my 200tdi.

Super impressed and had a great day to boot.

Mav

 

 

[elbekko]

Nice write-up, interesting

14 minutes ago, Maverik said:

That's quite the hot air intake.

[Maverik]

That manifold was a thing of beauty, the boss at the turbo end was a machined billet weldment really nice bit of kit. 

[Maverik]

Their bread and butter are Td5's, while they do Puma remapping/upgrade too, the ford engine is not really suited excessive tuning, I think they said the most they'd got out of one was about 196bhp.

[smallfry]

Be interesting to see how long it lasts. Did my ex bosses VW transporter no favours at all.

Sorry to be negative, but I always ask myself why don't the manufacturers do this if its that easy.  They spend many millions on development, employing probably the best engineers, and yet someone working from an industrial unit knows more than they do ?

Are they going to pay if the engine blows up ? Legal stuff was a disclaimer I guess ?

[landroversforever]

8 minutes ago, smallfry said:

Be interesting to see how long it lasts. Did my ex bosses VW transporter no favours at all.

Sorry to be negative, but I always ask myself why don't the manufacturers do this if its that easy.  They spend many millions on development, employing probably the best engineers, and yet someone working from an industrial unit knows more than they do ?

Are they going to pay if the engine blows up ? Legal stuff was a disclaimer I guess ?

Depends entirely on the tuners. So if it had issues I'd suggest it was done by someone who doesn't know what they're doing. 

As for the manufacturers.... they've got loads of things to worry about over power/torque levels. They want something to be unstressed and long lasting, but also the rest would need updating for them too, also dealing with different quality/spec of fuel in various markets affects what's ultimately achievable. 

[smallfry]

32 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

Depends entirely on the tuners. So if it had issues I'd suggest it was done by someone who doesn't know what they're doing. 

As for the manufacturers.... they've got loads of things to worry about over power/torque levels. They want something to be unstressed and long lasting, but also the rest would need updating for them too, also dealing with different quality/spec of fuel in various markets affects what's ultimately achievable. 

Was done by a professional outfit with posh premises and waiting room. Sudden massive oil consumption and fuel rail and pipes blew. Vehicle had only done about 50k. Not their fault though. Didn't want to know. Needed a new engine. It is not the only vehicle I personally know of that has failed, most likely because of chip tuning and system deletion.

I am well aware that manufacturers have to cater for all the colours in all the sizes sort of thing, but as a lot of vehicles seem to sold on power outputs and performance (even vans)I would have thought they would cater for this, depending on where the vehicle is sold. After all, they spent all that time and money cheating emissions !

[landroversforever]

2 minutes ago, smallfry said:

Was done by a professional outfit with posh premises and waiting room. Sudden massive oil consumption and fuel rail and pipes blew. Vehicle had only done about 50k. Not their fault though. Didn't want to know. Needed a new engine. It is not the only vehicle I personally know of that has failed, most likely because of chip tuning and system deletion.

I am well aware that manufacturers have to cater for all the colours in all the sizes sort of thing, but as a lot of vehicles seem to sold on power outputs and performance (even vans)I would have thought they would cater for this, depending on where the vehicle is sold. After all, they spent all that time and money cheating emissions !

But that still doesn't make it a tuner that actually knows what they're doing. I know of several that I wouldn't trust with a toy car let alone an actual car, yet their premises make them look impressive.

[smallfry]

52 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

But that still doesn't make it a tuner that actually knows what they're doing. I know of several that I wouldn't trust with a toy car let alone an actual car, yet their premises make them look impressive.

That is a very fair comment. I can think of a localish (Rainham Essex) alloy wheel emporium that is exactly like this ! 

[fmmv]

Didn't the 2.2 Puma in mk3 mondeo ST produce 155 bhp? So 159 isn't ridiculously above Ford's rating.

[Gazzar]

Yet Volvo  will sell you an upgrade for their five cylinder diesels, boosting hp and torque. And a polestar badge to go with it.

[smallfry]

20 minutes ago, Gazzar said:

Yet Volvo  will sell you an upgrade for their five cylinder diesels, boosting hp and torque. And a polestar badge to go with it.

Volvo engines do have a reputation for being very strong though.

[Gazzar]

Good point, especially in the context of ford engines in JLR products.

[muddy]

Without getting into a slanging match as im sure they have many many satisfied customers in the interests of helping others on the forum I would be wary of using them for anything above a generic stage one remap.

[Chicken Drumstick]

On 6/15/2023 at 12:09 PM, smallfry said:

Be interesting to see how long it lasts. Did my ex bosses VW transporter no favours at all.

Sorry to be negative, but I always ask myself why don't the manufacturers do this if its that easy.  They spend many millions on development, employing probably the best engineers, and yet someone working from an industrial unit knows more than they do ?

Are they going to pay if the engine blows up ? Legal stuff was a disclaimer I guess ?

I think you need to take a bit of a wider look to be honest. 
 

People and industry have been tuning car engines for the best part of 120 years or more. It’s not as if it is a new fangled thing that someone just thought of in the past 24 months. 
 

As a mass market production engine it needs to meet many criteria. Including emissions for Type Approval, often on a global market, not just regional. Be capable of running on fuels from all over the world. Meet mpg expectations. As well as the criteria for the vehicle it is going in. Not every car needs to be making the most power straight from the dealership floor. 
 

Durability and reliability will be concerns. But when a car maker might make a million or more engines, they’d usually opt on the safer side than not in its tuning. As a one off and very tiny percentage of the total engine production run, you can tweak the boundaries and probably not impact the engines durability to any great extent. 
 

As for how long they last. Well Puma Defenders have been around and been tuned since 2007. With an engine that put out more power in other applications as standard. TD5’s have been around even longer. So it is pretty well established how durable either of these engines are to being tuned. 
 

Should an engine instantly blow up that can be traced to the tuning. Yes a company could be legally liable or accountable for it. But that is a complex question with far too many variables (ifs buts and maybes) to have a singular answer. 
 

Fact is. There are lots and lots of tuned vehicles out there. While some may have issues, the vast majority probably don’t. 

[smallfry]

I do not need to take a wider look, whatever that means, thank you.

I am well aware what compromises manufacturers have to make and work to, and demands of different markets etc

I am also well aware that tuning has been around  from the very inception of the ICE. Progress, innovation, and development for a start, and also what has been done in garages and workshops, by both individuals and companies both large and small, in the fields of motorsport, aviation, boating, and just for the hell of it.

I have done enough of it myself over the years on "A" series, Triumph, Rover and Ford V8s, so I do have some idea. Some things work, and some dont. Sometimes culminating in a broken engine.

I know of several people personally who have had chip tuning done, which by and large involves ramping up pressures and duration on already highly loaded components, and it has gone wrong for one reason or another. I also know how the suppliers of such things manage to avoid the problems and expense they have caused to an otherwise perfectly fine engine, which more like as not would have lasted for many years, by blaming some other factor.

I am also well aware that there are lots of tuned vehicles out there, but I have to say that I have never come across anyone who has been happy with it and had no problems long term. This is why I personally cannot be bothered with it any more. But regarding the vast majority ? You have no more idea than I do. I can only comment on things of which I have direct experience.

 

[Snagger]

Just look at how many TD5s warp their exhaust manifolds enough to rip studs from the head, and that can happen with a Discovery engine in standard tune.  I imagine a lot of the conservatism in the manufacturer tuning of modern engines is more due to emissions legislation than durability, but it still seems like folly to me.  If I wanted to have a sporty drive, I’d buy a sports car.  Still, horses for courses, and if people have the time and money to spend on damaged engines, then that is great for them - it keeps the tuners and parts suppliers in a job, so everybody wins.

[Hollywood500]

Well over 250,000 miles here across 4 different vehicles all tuned by Alive with not a single issue that was related to the tuning or added stress caused by the tuning.

Wouldn’t hesitate to have any and every vehicle I own optimised by them, improvements in driveability alone are more than worth it and the mpg improvement especially over the miles I do soon pay for the work.