I need to find my clunk

[Peaklander]

Hi. This is a request for advice about my 1996 110 which has a clunk on taking-up drive after gear change. It is quite clear and the change has to be very slow to avoid it:

This clunk has always been present and I have it narrowed down to what I think must be the R380.

Over the past years I have:

1. Replaced all drive flanges and frequently check for little / no movement at them

2. Fitted new A frame ball joint

3. All bushes replaced with SuperPro

4. Run in diff lock with no prop at front then back

5. Ashcroft overhaul of LT230

6. Rebuilt my Roamerdrive but use the original in/out shaft

I have last year run for months without the OD and the clunk was there I’m sure.

This week, for another reason, I ran the vehicle for an hour with the middle seatbox cover raised and the clunk was very obviously ‘in there’ somewhere

The question is, can I now say that it must be the main gearbox? If it is, where will the clunk be?

Have I missed anything?

Thanks

 

[elbekko]

Broken clutch spring?

[Peaklander]

I did split the gearbox off sometime last year to sort out a squeaky release arm. I didn’t notice a broken spring but I will see if I have any photos. 
 

[steve b]

hockey stick to axle bush(es) ? A clunk is not a noise the R380 makes?

Output splines on the R380?

Steve

[Peaklander]

I have tried to find anything moving in all the bushes- with various pry bars etc and couldn’t.

Yes wondered about the output splines. Isn’t it hard to check them as there’s the gear that also connects with the Transfer Box? In my case it is the concentric shaft into the Roamerdrive.

We are on a trip at the moment so it’s only thoughts. A plan of action would be a good thing to take home. 

[Eightpot]

If you can get it over a pit, on a ramp or on stands (with utmost care), take the drive flange caps and pto cover off, put in gear & turn a wheel or crank a little back & forth, you can normally work from one end or the other and identify where the slack is. 

[Peaklander]

I’ll try that when we get back but it will need the Roamerdrive to come off again! That removable gear with the cross drilled hole and helical cut is hard to turn anyway though. Is there a technique to find slack?

I also thought about putting the transfer box into neutral and trying a few real main box gear changes with power on. I wonder if that would work with no drive line resistance?

Any other slack points at the R380?

[elbekko]

10 hours ago, Peaklander said:

I did split the gearbox off sometime last year to sort out a squeaky release arm. I didn’t notice a broken spring but I will see if I have any photos. 
 

That looks fine, yeah. How are the input splines on the gearbox?

I'm inclined to agree with @steve b that the clunk is unlikely to come from inside the R380.

[miketomcat]

Input or output splines on the gearbox or clutch splines/springs (the springs can be not broken but still have a load of slop). Would be my guess.

Mike

[Peaklander]

Ok chaps thank you. I can think about that job with more certainty now.

Currently driving down the coast past Split on the way to Albania. The overdrive is getting well used on this quiet motorway.

I have one more item to diagnose and fix! Will leave that question for another post / day. 

[fmmv]

Or maybe the A frame ball joint. I know you have changed it, but I have an adjustable one that slackens off, and does need adjustment from time to time, so they must wear. Its such a known clunk generator

[FridgeFreezer]

6 hours ago, Peaklander said:

I’ll try that when we get back but it will need the Roamerdrive to come off again! That removable gear with the cross drilled hole and helical cut is hard to turn anyway though. Is there a technique to find slack?

I'd suggest it's easier / less work / less disturbance to just pull the LT230 bottom plate off and look up - you won't see the mesh between the input gear and the gearbox output shaft but it gets you most of the way up the chain of things than can clunk.

...and you might still be able to see *something* about the input gear depending how it all goes together, my memory is fuzzy on the exact setup.

[bishbosh]

I can't believe nobody has chimed in helpfully with "They all do that"..... so I will....  

[Peaklander]

Thanks for the further helpful comments and thanks for yours @bishbosh; where would the Internet be without those gems!

Right so my A frame ball is adjustable but I have never managed to find any play. @fmmv can you tell a man of simple tools (due to me sitting here about to jump in a warm sea), just how to check? I have a jack and an axle stand but don’t know if it should hang loose or sit on the wheels.

If it is that joint then I should try to do it field repair style. Also it will improve my frustration level somewhat! The vehicle is nearly OK now.

[steve b]

On the wheels , I use a lever bar between the BJ securing bolt head and the axle mounting face to try and lift it up. 

Can you mount a video camera underneath to view the rear axle nose from the side and and rock it forward in gear then back in reverse? 

If the nose is going up/down then it will be the A frame joint or bushes or the trailing arm bushes

Steve

[fmmv]

Hi, Re the adjustment to the A frame ball, I have just used a 19mm ( I think) spanner, either a socket or ring, and tightened it up, not jacked up, just as it stands (thinking the wear is most likely to be in the 'normal' area it works in rather than an extreme).  This is on a Gwynn Lewis one. I tighten pretty much as much as I can then back off exactly one smidge (probably about a flat of the nut). I have found though that it loosens off with use, ie not just wear, the nut turns back, so have made a little bracket to hold it still. But if you nip it up and the clunk goes, you know it's that, or not if it stays.  It needed adjustyent soon after it was fitted, but settled down after that.

Edited September 18, 2023 by fmmv

[Peaklander]

Mine is the same one, it’s been on for a handful of years, so I will take one or two actions. First I’ll see if it will tighten (and if not, if it can be loosened). If tightening isn’t possible then I will use my little tripod with phone mount and perch that somewhere and get rocking.

Not sure if I can do the second one here as the wheels are on levellers, the awning is out and so that might need to wait for another spot.

I am pretty sure that it’s a clunk around the gearbox though but will definitely eliminate the A frame ball joint first, as advised.

Here’s a couple of pics to make the thread more relevant to the current situation 🤣

 

 

Edit: just to add that this ‘problem’ is insignificant compared to a chap from Italy, who’s also on this tiny site. Somehow he has put petrol into his large motorhome and is wandering around in a sad expensive sort of way. Unfortunately, I don’t think I can help him.

[Peaklander]

After much lying on my back on a groundsheet, using my phone as a mirror, I managed to release the two tabs that I now remember are there.

This meant that the nut hadn’t loosened. With just enough room for a bar I got the nut to move past the tabs after ages prising them a little.

As you can see from before and after, it didn’t move much.

 

 

 

[fmmv]

It doesn't sound like that was it( sorry) Mine seems to push past the tabs, then again its nigh impossible as you say to get at them to knock.

[Peaklander]

It was worth a try @fmmv - thanks. I will try to knock two tabs back at some point and might yet try the video idea from @steve b

[landroversforever]

TIm, have you looked at either of the diffs? With the wheels on the ground and the handbrake off (wheels chocked obviously) giving the props a twist should show any play. 

 

[Peaklander]

Well there is some play Ross but I always understood that really is normal. However I recently test-ran with each prop removed in turn and it was still there.

[landroversforever]

How much rotation play have you got in each diff flange? 

 

[Peaklander]

I will have to let you know. I will look, promise.

BTW at the front, Ashcroft fitted their ATB. I delivered it personally and asked to go in and watch the job but the guy passed word to the front desk that he didn’t want to have me watching. It was his choice whether or not he did.

So I don’t know what wear he might have seen on the crown wheel /pinion and if he would have pointed it out. Also maybe some at the inner end of the driveshafts. Not sure though.