Lockylockwood Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 I have a defender 90 2.5 TD and I would like more power. I spoke to a specialist and he advised me to get a 200tdi as it’s an easy swap for my limited budget. He recommended the discovery version because it’s apparently cheaper to buy second hand and has a bit more power than the defender version, but I have just seen a defender version for a similar price on eBay. Does anyone have any advice here? The specialist was adamant I should get a discovery 200tdi but it doesn’t feel right when I drive a defender and I can get a defender version. It may be worth noting I have an LT77 gear box. Any advice welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Go for Defender, it will fit easier to fit, Disco turbo sits a lot lower and can clash with chassis, creating fabrication issues Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 200Tdi is a fairly easy swap as far as engine swaps go. Either engine will work fine, the Defender version has the turbo mounted up high and I think the timing cover is slightly different. Rated at 107hp vs 111hp for the Disco version. Disco version has the turbo mounted lower down. As a rule Defender versions have been rarer to find, so lots of people went with a Disco one. The Defender one will be slightly more straight forward to fit. You'll still need other bits in either case, exhaust, rad, intercooler etc. Not sure what your budget is. If you are doing the work yourself I'd say min of £1000-1500 all in. If you are paying labour it could be quite a bit more. Tdi's are nice engines, although less refined than the 2.5TD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 If you can get a defender 200 go for that as all parts are off the shelf so to speak. The disco version works well but you need countersink some holes in the flywheel housing and fit countersunk bolts, you need the engine mounts off the td and you'll need a special down pipe (I strongly recommend the Steve parker item). Some of the the hoses need a little work to make fit and you'll have to home the air filter. Finally you struggle to use the mechanical fan as it can clash with the steering box. Both are disco engines in a 90 and 110 respectively the first is an install I did from scratch and was able to make the viscose fan work. The second someone else started and I just finished it and got it running this one needed an electric fan. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebus Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 I've done 3 of these conversions now, all disco engines, strongly agree with Mr tomcat on the Steve Parkers bit, the manifold is well made as opposed to others on various auction sites, but have a gander at glenn coyne on the web, priceless info, the guys name is Richard, my first conversion I rung him and rung him and rung him again, he never lost his patience once with my silly questions and still in contact with him now, good luck, it isn't as daunting as it sounds, keep us all posted how your getting on, and if you run into trouble there's some clever f@<[ers on here aswell, so I can't see you having many problems once you get at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Richard is a really nice and knowledgeable guy. He writes the Norfolk Garage articles in LRM magazine and is their best writer, in my opinion. Installation of the Defender engine will be significantly easier than the Discovery engine as the flywheel housing will match the existing bell housing, the turbo will be in the right place for all the standard intake and exhaust piping and the Defender water pump position will be retained, so the viscous fan will fit correctly with the rad shroud and you’ll be able to use standard coolant hoses. However, it is not especially hard to fit the Discovery version with a lot of off-the-shelf conversion parts available. Condition of the engine and its ancillaries is an important consideration. It might be cheaper to fit a Discovery engine that you have verified is in very good order using a lot of new conversion parts than to have to rebuild a Defender engine and use few or no new and a lot of used standard parts. What is your plan for your 19J? If it is worn out, don’t just scrap it - they share a lot of components with long lasting 12Js and with 200Tdis (crank and cam shafts, flywheel, timing chest, oil filter housing, injectors and pipes, pumps, mountings and more are variously common between types). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmmv Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 People also speak very highly of the Glencoyne engine mounts, as being much better than standard, even original parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigi_H Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) Use the Defender version. regarding the power: it is really easy to tune the defender version. regarding the exhaust: this is an article I wrote some time ago: https://www-explorermagazin-de.translate.goog/bauberi/defaus21.htm?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp The selfmade downpipe is working for 70000 km now Edited October 14, 2023 by Sigi_H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 14 hours ago, fmmv said: People also speak very highly of the Glencoyne engine mounts, as being much better than standard, even original parts They are. I think the genuine mounts for the last 15 years have been made from the wrong grade, just like most pattern parts. They are probably from the same manufacturer, because eLR don’t care about older vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebus Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 I bought the self same engine mounts off of Emberton imperial and they seem to be ok and no difference in price, definitely worth the extra few quid. I know I'm going to get shot down here, but it's all OK to get an 11L defender engine and god only knows I'd love one, but, and hopefully someone might agree, try and find an exhaust manifold if your one goes, cos nobody is going to sell you the spare one they have on the shelf, along with thermostat housings, for christ sakes be careful when you take that off, plus a few other odds and sods On the other hand, the 12L disco engine bits are a bit more available secondhand, and like Snagger says after market parts are there at a fairly reasonable price, it makes the job a lot easier knowing parts are off the shelf, your choice on the quality you buy, there's a bit more buggering around but that makes it a bit more of a wheeze So my side of the fence is go with the disco lumps, they are quality engines unless you abuse them, same as the 11Ls before anybody yells, just availability of parts, which I've already said makes it nicer and reassuring, that's my last penny in the subject, sorry to go on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurbie Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 47 minutes ago, stevebus said: try and find an exhaust manifold if your one goes, cos nobody is going to sell you the spare one they have on the shelf, along with thermostat housings, for christ sakes be careful when you take that off, plus a few other odds and sods https://www.lrdirect.com/err678-exhaust-manifold-200tdi-def (does anybody know a new waterpipe for sale 🙂 err371) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebus Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Nice price aswell, but I'll stand corrected, disco it up in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 15 hours ago, stevebus said: I bought the self same engine mounts off of Emberton imperial and they seem to be ok and no difference in price, definitely worth the extra few quid. I know I'm going to get shot down here, but it's all OK to get an 11L defender engine and god only knows I'd love one, but, and hopefully someone might agree, try and find an exhaust manifold if your one goes, cos nobody is going to sell you the spare one they have on the shelf, along with thermostat housings, for christ sakes be careful when you take that off, plus a few other odds and sods On the other hand, the 12L disco engine bits are a bit more available secondhand, and like Snagger says after market parts are there at a fairly reasonable price, it makes the job a lot easier knowing parts are off the shelf, your choice on the quality you buy, there's a bit more buggering around but that makes it a bit more of a wheeze So my side of the fence is go with the disco lumps, they are quality engines unless you abuse them, same as the 11Ls before anybody yells, just availability of parts, which I've already said makes it nicer and reassuring, that's my last penny in the subject, sorry to go on Charlie Emberton used to get his softer mounts from Bearmach, but they are gone now. I don’t know if he is selling remaining stock or using the same supplier as Richard ( Glencoyne). Richard used to sell the BM type a while back, which is what the set I fitted in 2011 were, but the second pair I bought from him a few years ago (to do the transmission mounts) were a special order that he has made by someone in batches. It’s possible that Charlie is using the same supplier, buying from Richard or even collaborating in buying large orders to get costs down. What I do know is that both sold good parts that LR stopped decades ago. You would be satisfied with mounts from either supplier, though last I saw Charlie was much cheaper (Richard’s are still worth the price if Charlie is out of stock). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebus Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 I think these were bearmach mounts, I seem to remember the packaging and thinking it was a shame they went under. I know they work, no vibration at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockylockwood Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 Hi all, just to update you. I went for the defender version. It has been in the garage for 6 weeks now as I have been getting them to fix a dodgy job done by another garage who swapped the chassis. Thanks for all your advice. I am looking forward to getting cracking with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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