white90 Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 Jules not for you but definatley for Jon Come on Down to the Next JST event Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I'm up for mashalling now I have a proper truck again.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Interesting thread! Had a couple of thoughts for mine but not sure if they're workable? Cut the floor of the tub out (truckcab) it's got lots of ali and steel bracing and replacing it with a slab of ali (which would be bolted to existing tub), if i do this, would the tub loose it's rigidity or need extra bracing? removable floor would be handy for maintenance too. Cut out the middle (a-frame mount) crossmember and replace with something else (i need to do this anyway as mine has big rot holes and is not easy access for welding). Other plan to to incorporate a winch cradle into the new crossmember (rear winch or rerig as top winch) I guess it's better to have the winch mounted low and near the vehicles COG? Edit: d'oh! silly me, the rollcage mounts will hold the tub in place so could cut out floor between these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Bonnet. Do you still have the bonnet release cable fitted ? Well remove that and the bit on the front panel. Replace with two bonnet pins. Then remove all the steel bracing under the bonnet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Just thought I'd bring a small dose of reality to all this hole cutting malarky: In a piece of 5mm steel plate, you will need to cut thirteen 50mm diameter holes to save 1kg of weight. Quite a low return on the effort IMHO. On a racer sure, every kg counts, but on a challenge vehicle? Not so sure myself. More holes means more opportunities to collect mud and stones IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Why bother? Do you know that by saving weight you will be any more succesful? Compare equally equiped vehicles to yours in ability. There are no real speed sctions in UK Challenges so, unlike Jesmond, you don't need to shed what is such a small amount of weight in the grand scheme. Losing the 200kgs is more than fair. What actually creates or loses traction is weight displacement. Axle to axle, corner to corner and never forget COG distrubution. You can get a challenge Suzi down to 1000kgs and an Auverland to 1100kgs but then you get issues with traction becuase you are too light - been down this road before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share Posted April 20, 2007 Good Point David I was thinking making life easier on the winches really I have a figure of 2000kg in mind not that I have any proof that would be any better just seems like an idea that a little less weight may help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Good Point DavidI was thinking making life easier on the winches really I have a figure of 2000kg in mind not that I have any proof that would be any better just seems like an idea that a little less weight may help. Tony The US Military have a system to work out the required pull needed to recover a stuck vehicle - so do the Brits The Yank one is 100% (of the vehicle MLW) to the hubs, 200% to the door handles and 300% to the roof The Brits do it a bit differently. There is a table for different mediums - ie Clay, Sand, West Sand etc. Then one 1/60th of the vehicle weight per degree incline up to 60 degrees. So, say you have lost traction in clay (rarely deep enough to hit hubs) on a 15 degree slope. That's 20% of the vehicle weight for Clay - a pull of 437kgs and 15/60ths added for the incline (1/4) so add 546kgs of pull - total = 983kgs. Shed 200kgs and what do you get - 900kgs of pull so are saving your winch less than a strong man can lift off the ground and don't forget this is rolling mass... Your winches are well maintained and run good batteries - no matter what type of winch they are, that saving of about 80-90kgs of pull in an avergae condition is bugger all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 having seen the size of Lovepumps humongous wallet he's more than qualified to talk about lifting 80-90kgs if you're keen on having a quick tug often throughout the day then thats 10 x 90kgs worth of wear on your winch that you havent had to subject it to..? I know my discipline is a little "odd" and to us its a game of keeping a car together for long periods of time without it exploding but possibly the theory is applicable??!? need to discuss over more beer than our respective kidneys can process to get to the bottom of it... .....but dont forget your carbon footprint in all this, Im trying to go from a size 12 snowshow to maybe a size 10 - its an issue Im constantly aware of when demolishing large swages of countryside and sometimes while harpooning pandas Im irked about creating a better environment - less all up weight helps out in the MPG stakes - think of the children! [fade out to Michael PedoJacksons earth song] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Surely as the saying goes... I think most challenge vehicles could benefit from losing a bit of weight as the more you weigh the more work the whole vehicle has to do to move itself around - suspension needs to be stronger, engine (or winch) has to pull harder, etc. I think Dave has a point about going too light but I don't think a challenge 90 is in danger of hitting that point without some help from an F1 team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I was thinking making life easier on the winches really Maybe its time to get a decent winch that is up to the job .............. you know............. the sort of winch that will run all day long without burning motors, stripped gears or circlips flying off shafts Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 oh dear, Ian, whilst i would normally back you 100% on your choice of phrase, i rather fear that this time you may have opened yourself up to ridicule from the electrickery boys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 An interesting thread to say the least. Does anyone remember the super light lightweight from many years ago? Think it was Carl Amos that built it. A little taken from everywhere. Hubs skimmed, drums skimmed, drive flanges, pannels like swiss cheese etc etc. I seem to remember he sprayed underneath with oil to stop the mud sticking between laps. Don't think that would be allowed these days if it is true. I did consider all this some time ago for the Range Rover, but if you are starting with a big heavy vehicle in the first place, there isn't much point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 An interesting thread to say the least. Does anyone remember the super light lightweight from many years ago? Think it was Carl Amos that built it. A little taken from everywhere. Hubs skimmed, drums skimmed, drive flanges, pannels like swiss cheese etc etc. I seem to remember he sprayed underneath with oil to stop the mud sticking between laps. Don't think that would be allowed these days if it is true. I did consider all this some time ago for the Range Rover, but if you are starting with a big heavy vehicle in the first place, there isn't much point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 OOps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 oh dear, Ian, whilst i would normally back you 100% on your choice of phrase, i rather fear that this time you may have opened yourself up to ridicule from the electrickery boys! No, not at all Jim ....................... once the timing case was holed the engine qucikly filled with silt an was essentially sha@@ed, however, still running and able to provide power to the winch..................... my problem was that do to the loss of water pump drive from the fan belt I needed to exit quickly and to do so required a rear winch ........... something that I have not yet fitted. Anybody with electrikery and front winch only would have been tin the same predicament as battery power alone would not have pulled them out forwards though the carp. I'm off to collect a 'core' 3.9 for rebuild this afternoon ............. however, I could always do a detour an pick up that LS1 that you are not going to need Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share Posted April 20, 2007 Ian now I expected better from you get yourself a nice Diesel you know it makes sense then you can stay to the end of the next event Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share Posted April 20, 2007 back to the topic: Recovery gear I carry = 33kg in its box A Simex on a Rim (new) = 40kg A BFG MT 255/85/16 (New) on a rim = 35kg High lift jack =12kg rubber floor mats from front= 6kgs Tool box =25kg high lift base pad =2kg waffles =20kg I'll weigh the door next time I remove it. so there is a minimum saving of 85kg plus the door and wheel carrier I reckon 150kg saved by leaving a a few bits back at base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisH Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 dare i say it - Swap it for a s***ki heck you swiped my line there. My Vitara is only about 800kg less that you truck saying that does not include the driver!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 rubber floor mats from front= 6kgshigh lift base pad =2kg Front mats. I have checker plate lino in mine backed with camping mat Hi-Lift base. Mine is half inch ply. Bolted to the underside of the battery box lid. mike Causing more trouble in an empty house !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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