Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Hello all, for the technical gurus out there please help if you can, ...........if you don't know ..........don't guess ! The 4.5 Eales V8............... Cr*p ignition........................ as I have said before...................... Have been doing a shed load a research, ............. speaking to John Eales (Very helpful), previous owners and my own research .......................... including taking a peek inside a load of dizzys......................... As such I have some extra understanding of whats going on, ...........but I need some answers....... Dizzy Type : 1. 35DLM8 (outside amp on front of dizzy) 2. 35DM8 Amp under coil with shaped front to accept coil 3. 35D8 Points coil (Forget 35DE8 early EFI) Can anyone point me or send me or post what the differences are between the ignition and advance curves of 1 2 & 3, along with Bob weight data or any other changes between these Dizzys ???. I have now discovered that JE built this with a Type 1 dizzy guts placed into a type 2 Dizzy for build reasosns........................... ..............as such the dizzy really is in most ways a Type 1 later used on 3.9s, .......... ...........although as a race engine no vacumn is used, .............but from the outside and numbers appears as a type 2. I know the static settings and the max advance settings, these are with no vacumn, so forget any vacumn differences, ie pulsair has push pull vac vs type 1 pull vac etc etc etc I just need to know what are the ignition / curve advance, bob weights and any other diferences between these Type 1 2 and 3 dizzys to complete the next stage....Getting a decent spark and maybe making it run in water, anyone help HELP...............Please ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Hello all,for the technical gurus out there please help if you can, ...........if you don't know ..........don't guess ! anyone help HELP...............Please ? Nige Why, you do all the time Nige Stop using up all of the forum bandwidth and space that we have donated for and buy a diesel!! You know you want to really Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Somebody is just gonna be in so much trouble.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Steve, you beat me to it Nige, the problem is I don't have a clue who'd know this sort of thing, its a very specialist sort of question. Have you tried speaking to Lund engines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 26, 2005 Author Share Posted October 26, 2005 101 "Views".... 3 posts.......................................B) Ooooooooooooo I thought, probably ............. 1 P take, 1 talking out of 1s A^se, and 1 sensible helpful knowledgeable reply. Humpf................. Hopeless, .......................... I'd report you to a mod, ...............but he's too busy ROTFLHAO Grumble Grumble.............................. Nige PS Where is Steve L these days anyways ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 >"PS Where is Steve L these days anyways ?" Dunno - didn't he used to hang out on ORRP? Anyway, here you go: TDC [REMOVE THIS BIT] @LundEngines.com Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisha Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Surely the advance curve of the bob weights is something that at best is only going to be a generic value on each of the dizzys. As you say, its simple to get the max advance, but the curve will vary on the springs attached to the bob weights and the actual weight of the bobs themselves. I would imagine that even 2 dizzys of the same model number would have different curves because the spring tension is going to differ slightly. i.e. i reckon you'll have to measure it yourself. worth a look... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 doesn't the advance have a lot to do with what the cam is telling it. I.e they need to work inconjunction with each other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Hi Nige, I found this on the 35D8 as fitted to MGB V8: http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/41394v8l.htm Of course, this may differ from the Landy version. Regards, Diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Have a word with Tomcat there V8 racers are somthing else they will be able to help, See if John can help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Nige, if you have a look at the tuning section, (chapter5) of the 90/110 workshop manual, you will see centrifugal advance deceleration tests for the various V8 distributors. http://www.landrover.ee/est/files/manuals/...0_WSM_book1.pdf Note that there is some variation for different markets. Note also that these are deceleration tests rather than curve plots, and I am not sure that they take into account the static advance. Some of the data does not include the max centrifugal advance either. A further note in several cases the degrees symbol has been misstakenly substituted by '' Hope this helps, Regards, Diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 I'd report you to a mod, ...............but he's too busy ROTFLHAO Have you figured out why yet Nige? PS Where is Steve L these days anyways ?I'm over here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 I'm over here I think the 'Steve L' in question was Steve Lundlack of Lund Engines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 I think the 'Steve L' in question was Steve Lundlack of Lund Engines I thought so too but that wasn't what was asked and I fitted the description of the suspect Thought for the day: these posts that say "don't answer unless you really know what you are talking about" really are a red rag to a bull aren't they I'll shut up... sorry Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siggy Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 All I know about dizzy and spark plugs is don't heat shrink the cable to the spark plugs and to the dizzy cap. screw in the spark plugs and then spray copious amounts of cleaning fluid into it. wipe off them silicon seal the dizzy cap on. Then get a mate to turn it over whilst leaning over the dizzy cap result BOOM, POP, ARRRGGGHHHH followed by three mate, one a responsible first aider, falling over and slowly dying from laughing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 26, 2005 Author Share Posted October 26, 2005 All I know about dizzy and spark plugs is don't heat shrink the cable to the spark plugs and to the dizzy cap.screw in the spark plugs and then spray copious amounts of cleaning fluid into it. wipe off them silicon seal the dizzy cap on. Then get a mate to turn it over whilst leaning over the dizzy cap result BOOM, POP, ARRRGGGHHHH followed by three mate, one a responsible first aider, falling over and slowly dying from laughing Siggy, Man after my own heart, I am also very very aware its now nearly November and I have had (so far) an A&E free year..... "A 1st" as SWMBO said the other day with mates about, who then collapsed laughing........... Anyway, have just about got tghe info I wnated, for those who are interested Points V8 Dizzys have a different (flater) curve to EFI 3.5 efi and 3.9 efi are very very similar cept the 3.9 has a "Better" curve, ie BL had some pratise, and the main difference is the change from a mix of loads of advance at low rpms, to a flater curve to higher rpm and more advance, vs 3.9 curve which has an overall smotther and more progressive curve to max advance at higher rpm The Remote amp (behind the coil) is not as good as the later amp (on dizzy) and many people think they are the same but in a differeing casing.... There are 2 things that effect timing, internal stuff (bob weights and springs) and external - Vacumn. I don't have a vac so I can disregard this, and camshafts can alter the vacumn at idle and lower rpms etc etc etc Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Are you still fannying around with dizzys Nige? Fer chrissakes bung the weights and springs from yours into that one I lent you and go play! If it was welding a 6mm "repair section" to something you'd have done it, plated it and posted a photo of it by now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwriyadh Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Nige, does it really matter what bits are in these dizzies? The match between the dizzy and the engine is pure guess-work until you have a timing run done on the engine. When you know what the engine requires then you can build a dizzy to give that curve. The ignition amplifier under the coil is preferable to the dizzy mounted version, less liable to heat induced failures. Surprised that FF has not proposed the MS+EDIS solution, probably the best answer to your problem. jw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 JW - I haven't proposed it 'cos I know I'd have to do it! I've not fitted one (with EDIS) yet so don't really want to make the first one someone else's truck. Getting the fuelling wrong is one thing, getting the sparks wrong is a bit more dangerous engine-wise. I'm waiting for Geoff Beaumont to get his sorted then he can be the forum EDIS Guru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 I'm waiting for Geoff Beaumont to get his sorted then he can be the forum EDIS Guru 'Cos he's got a great track record for keeping his engine in one piece... Should get started on it next month after I get the new engine off robhybrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 BTW Bill Shurvinton has EDIS trigger wheels now that should fit V8 crank pulleys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 BTW Bill Shurvinton has EDIS trigger wheels now that should fit V8 crank pulleys. Got any piccies? Wouldn't mind seeing how they compare to mine, considering I'll have the engine out soon, so his are vastly better it'd be no great hassle to swop over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 These are some "universal" ones from the same batch I think... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Universal-trigger-wh...1QQcmdZViewItem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Hmm, think with the tinplate mechano pullies on my truck I'm probably better off with the Ford trigger wheel I've got - don't really fancy trying to weld anything onto them... Taking this thread vaguely back on topic (sorry HfH), I guess one of those dizzy profiles would be a good place to start from when I get to setting up the Megasquirt ignition tables? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwriyadh Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Before you fit any EDIS or anything try advancing your existing dizzy until you can generate some knock. Read off the advance with a strobe to give yourself a limit to the advance when doing your tables. As a precaution have you thought about obtaining a knock sensor from a modern motor and trying get an output to light a led or something when knock occurs? I believe they are pieso-something or other which will resonate when knock occurs. Thus any output, amplified and then rectified could turn on a led. You do not need to know which cylinder is knocking, just that one or more are. Worth thinking about? The trigger wheels are designed to be clamped between the pulleys not welded to them. The welding is just a catch to prevent any rotation. jw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.